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Post by Orac on Jul 9, 2024 13:33:47 GMT
WW2 is irrelevant. The law changed after WW2 precisely to make illegal either the deliberate or reckless disproportionate killing of civilians. I don't accept that Israel's reaction to what happened is 'disproportionate' - though i'm not sure another approach might have been better
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Post by vinny on Jul 9, 2024 13:35:25 GMT
WW2 is irrelevant. The law changed after WW2 precisely to make illegal either the deliberate or reckless disproportionate killing of civilians. Correct, and even Operation Chastise would constitute a war crime by today's standards.
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RedRum
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Post by RedRum on Jul 9, 2024 17:09:18 GMT
You do know that the Palestinians are not 'allowed' armed forces, that is why Hamas are called terrorists. ...that and barbecuing Jews You or I do not know exactly what happened on the 7th mainly because Israeli's muddied the water with false claims of beheadings, mass rapes and torture. I do not support Hamas's actions but I do not live in Gaza.
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Post by vinny on Jul 9, 2024 17:29:33 GMT
One thing is certain, the leaders of Hamas in Egypt and Qatar are completely unharmed.
They're the first people I'd have gone after if I wanted to destroy Hamas and create a peaceful future.
Netanyahu doesn't want peace, he wants re-occupation.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 9, 2024 22:43:54 GMT
WW2 is irrelevant. The law changed after WW2 precisely to make illegal either the deliberate or reckless disproportionate killing of civilians. I don't accept that Israel's reaction to what happened is 'disproportionate' - though i'm not sure another approach might have been better Attacking the rocket launch sites: OK Withholding fuel, water and food down to the minimum to comply with international law: OK Using targeted precision munitions to kill Hamas fighters and military commanders: OK But they went way way beyond that. On day one they publicly announced 'no restraint' and within a week were boasting about how many 2,000ib bombs they'd used. Such have a lethal range of hundreds of metres. We now know many of them were unguided and of course even if they took out a Hamas fighter or two each would have killed many many more civilians - a clear war crime. And we've seen the destroyed houses and hospitals - another war crime. We've seen the videos of soldiers shooting unarmed white flag wavers, there's been the tank shelling of cars and the widespread use of artillery - hozizontal weaponry it totall inappropriate in urban warfar unless you aim is to kill civilians. All in all Israel has acted as if Palestiniians don't count as human beings, that the rules of war don't apply to the IDF and yet all the time turning world opinion against them and failing to get hostages released or Hamas neutralised. In short they have bene both evil and stupid. Just like the year before and the year before that and . . . . But Hamas and their Iranian masters/sponsors are actually worse, far far so.
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RedRum
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Post by RedRum on Jul 10, 2024 5:46:00 GMT
Hamas are the terrorist paramilitary organisation that the Gazans elected to represent them Hamas were not classed as terrorists when they were elected.
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Post by Orac on Jul 10, 2024 7:49:11 GMT
I don't accept that Israel's reaction to what happened is 'disproportionate' - though i'm not sure another approach might have been better All in all Israel has acted as if Palestiniians don't count as human beings, I disagree - i think Israel's actions make sense if you put them in the context - ie pursuing an internationally supported criminal operation, embedded, in a hostile population
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RedRum
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Post by RedRum on Jul 10, 2024 13:22:24 GMT
All in all Israel has acted as if Palestiniians don't count as human beings, I disagree - i think Israel's actions make sense if you put them in the context - ie pursuing an internationally supported criminal operation, embedded, in a hostile population Just as a matter of curiosity, do you think the Palestinian people should have the right to defend themselves against an occupying power?
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 10, 2024 21:58:40 GMT
All in all Israel has acted as if Palestiniians don't count as human beings, I disagree - i think Israel's actions make sense if you put them in the context - ie pursuing an internationally supported criminal operation, embedded, in a hostile population Using thousands of unguided Mk84 bombs in densely populated urban terrain. Bound to cause hugely disproportionate loss of civilian life and such is illegal. 'Weighing approximately 2,000 pounds, the MK-84 is capable of penetrating up to 11 feet of concrete and spreading lethal shrapnel in a 400-yard radius.'www.acc.af.mil/News/Article/3256056/mk-84-conical-bomb-assembly/
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Post by vinny on Jul 11, 2024 0:11:01 GMT
I disagree - i think Israel's actions make sense if you put them in the context - ie pursuing an internationally supported criminal operation, embedded, in a hostile population Just as a matter of curiosity, do you think the Palestinian people should have the right to defend themselves against an occupying power? Killing civilians isn't self defence.
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Post by Orac on Jul 11, 2024 6:01:13 GMT
I disagree - i think Israel's actions make sense if you put them in the context - ie pursuing an internationally supported criminal operation, embedded, in a hostile population Just as a matter of curiosity, do you think the Palestinian people should have the right to defend themselves against an occupying power? I think everyone has the right to self defense. Israel has 'declared war'.btw. If the 'Palestinians' confront and repel the Israeli forces and then go on to take territory, I would see nothing morally wrong with that (in itself). However, what 'the Palestinians' would do with such a situation would be likely horrendous - ie Jew Bonfires etc The Palestinians wont play ball on the diplomatic basics that allow a stable order to exist between rival groups (a group in particular) and themselves and so, the result is chaos
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RedRum
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Post by RedRum on Jul 11, 2024 6:44:08 GMT
Just as a matter of curiosity, do you think the Palestinian people should have the right to defend themselves against an occupying power? Killing civilians isn't self defence. I know but isn't that what Israel are doing?
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RedRum
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Post by RedRum on Jul 11, 2024 6:50:27 GMT
Just as a matter of curiosity, do you think the Palestinian people should have the right to defend themselves against an occupying power? I think everyone has the right to self defense. Israel has 'declared war'.btw. If the 'Palestinians' confront and repel the Israeli forces and then go on to take territory, I would see nothing morally wrong with that (in itself). However, what 'the Palestinians' would do with such a situation would be likely horrendous - ie Jew Bonfires etc The Palestinians wont play ball on the diplomatic basics that allow a stable order to exist between rival groups (a group in particular) and themselves and so, the result is chaos The Palestinians are not 'allowed' to have armed forces and have had to resort to terrorism. They cannot, given their denial of an official armed section, confront Israel on a level field. The Palestinians are the occupied people and an occupied people very rarely play ball, as you say, with the occupier unless they accept the status quo and resign themselves to the loss of their freedom.
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Post by Orac on Jul 11, 2024 6:57:24 GMT
I think everyone has the right to self defense. Israel has 'declared war'.btw. If the 'Palestinians' confront and repel the Israeli forces and then go on to take territory, I would see nothing morally wrong with that (in itself). However, what 'the Palestinians' would do with such a situation would be likely horrendous - ie Jew Bonfires etc The Palestinians wont play ball on the diplomatic basics that allow a stable order to exist between rival groups (a group in particular) and themselves and so, the result is chaos The Palestinians are not 'allowed' to have armed forces and have had to resort to terrorism. They cannot, given their denial of an official armed section, confront Israel on a level field. That's because they have been defeated in war after war after war - starting with the defeat of the Ottoman empire. However, they still think a solution to their situation is to find a way to declare war again. I don't want to be too broad and judgmental, but these people come across as incompetent idiots
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 11, 2024 7:14:05 GMT
The Palestinians are not 'allowed' to have armed forces and have had to resort to terrorism. They cannot, given their denial of an official armed section, confront Israel on a level field. That's because they have been defeated in war after war after war - starting with the defeat of the Ottoman empire. However, they still think a solution to their situation is to find a way to declare war again. I don't want to be too broad and judgmental, but these people come across as incompetent idiots Any more broad brush racism you're going to post today?
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