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Post by Zany on Aug 12, 2024 19:47:51 GMT
Which bits of our society has the Muslim church said they were opposed to important parts of our society? You seem to be mistaking extreme minority groups of the Muslim church with the main body. Or do you mean if tiny parts of the Christian church opposed significant parts of our society, would I think moving large numbers of Catholics into our community was a very bad idea. There is no such thing as the Muslim churchMuslims have been polled and the attitudes that are evident are pretty damn disturbing. Of course, your idiotic position regarding this culture would be harmless enough if you weren't also forcing them on the unwilling Clearly the use of 'church' was meant in the broad sense. Muslim Attitudes. Care to be a bit more precise in what "Muslims" have been polled on. There are very many fake polls out there. Of course your position is harmless as it represents a tiny minority of scaredy-cats
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 12, 2024 22:18:26 GMT
Might be an idea. FWIW despite my big disagreements with Tincs over issues chez Tinc, I think he's a goodun and always to be thanked for stepping up to provide a lifeboat site when Fox had had enough. Definitely not. Tinculin is an authoritarian who bypasses his mod' team and acts unilaterally when it suits him. He uses his self appointed powers as a weapon when he gets into a heated disagreement on one of his hobby horse subjects (Ukraine, Gaza, NATO etc). Whilst I may strongly disagree with Orac on many political topics I much prefer his hands off 'laisse faire' approach to running a site. That's convergent with my (outside the tent) experience. If it was a thread Tinculin was interested in, then the rules would be strictly enforced, on other threads it was the non gospel according to Pacifico that pertained allowing the swivel eyed racists to be as abusive at anyone they liked.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 12, 2024 22:24:34 GMT
There is no such thing as the Muslim churchMuslims have been polled and the attitudes that are evident are pretty damn disturbing. Of course, your idiotic position regarding this culture would be harmless enough if you weren't also forcing them on the unwilling Clearly the use of 'church' was meant in the broad sense. Muslim Attitudes. Care to be a bit more precise in what "Muslims" have been polled on. There are very many fake polls out there. Of course your position is harmless as it represents a tiny minority of scaredy-cats Exactly, Islam like Christianity is a very broad church Unfortunately some quite possibly mentally disturbed individuals like to take the most extreme comments they can find a trivial number of Muslims expressing and demand we all believe each and every Muslim is like that. Even Yaxley Lennon knows and says that's wrong.
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borgr0
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Post by borgr0 on Aug 13, 2024 2:33:29 GMT
It's pretty obvious that not all of the people protesting were thugs, many were peaceful protesters and quite a few were campaigners against knife crime, others were also campaigning to raise money for the families of the kids. I saw this captured on video very clearly in Middlesbrough where ignorant little toads ran around smashing every single house and car on street after street - where were the police then? They were busy kettling innocent protesters who had done nothing
The actual lawbreakers who blew up cars, broke into people's houses, assaulted random people on the streets were allowed to get away with it while the police stood back and watched. BTW, most protesters surveilled on all those videos clearly say they disavow the violence and find it intolerable, some point out they refuse to get involved because they will be attacked if they try to stop it - that's the police's job once again
The fact that all protesters are being tarred with the same brush, and the fact everyone is being associated with Tommy Robinson when people went there to make their feelings felt of all colours, creeds etc is clearly exactly what you expect from the ultra-corrupt media and those associated with it
I won't bother linking any videos, because minds have been made up and people obviously aren't interested in the actual truth and I'll be told I am a troll for pointing all this out most probably
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borgr0
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Post by borgr0 on Aug 13, 2024 2:49:44 GMT
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Post by Zany on Aug 13, 2024 6:23:29 GMT
It's pretty obvious that not all of the people protesting were thugs, many were peaceful protesters and quite a few were campaigners against knife crime, others were also campaigning to raise money for the families of the kids. I saw this captured on video very clearly in Middlesbrough where ignorant little toads ran around smashing every single house and car on street after street - where were the police then? They were busy kettling innocent protesters who had done nothing The actual lawbreakers who blew up cars, broke into people's houses, assaulted random people on the streets were allowed to get away with it while the police stood back and watched. BTW, most protesters surveilled on all those videos clearly say they disavow the violence and find it intolerable, some point out they refuse to get involved because they will be attacked if they try to stop it - that's the police's job once again The fact that all protesters are being tarred with the same brush, and the fact everyone is being associated with Tommy Robinson when people went there to make their feelings felt of all colours, creeds etc is clearly exactly what you expect from the ultra-corrupt media and those associated with it I won't bother linking any videos, because minds have been made up and people obviously aren't interested in the actual truth and I'll be told I am a troll for pointing all this out most probably I think its a great shame that Tommy Robinson with his history of racism has become the defacto leader for anyone wanting to cut immigration or concerned with the effects of multiculturalism. If ever there was a way to silence people, this is the best I've seen.
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borgr0
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Post by borgr0 on Aug 13, 2024 6:49:54 GMT
Indeed It's not that I personally want to cut immigration at all per se, it's that I'm against employers cynically exploiting them to lower wage costs while undercutting native workers, that's actually illegal in the EU now and rightly so. I'm also against bringing in ever higher amounts of people to up GDP figures which is the actual working economic model the Tories were using as of 2015, and pretty sure Labour are using that too www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/01/osborne-reliant-on-rising-immigration-levels-to-achieve-budget-surplusIf any of us came up with these unworkable figures, we'd be fired very quickly, why aren't government ministers held to the same normal standards others are? It's just wrong
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 13, 2024 8:31:05 GMT
Indeed It's not that I personally want to cut immigration at all per se, it's that I'm against employers cynically exploiting them to lower wage costs while undercutting native workers, that's actually illegal in the EU now and rightly so. I'm also against bringing in ever higher amounts of people to up GDP figures which is the actual working economic model the Tories were using as of 2015, and pretty sure Labour are using that too www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/01/osborne-reliant-on-rising-immigration-levels-to-achieve-budget-surplusIf any of us came up with these unworkable figures, we'd be fired very quickly, why aren't government ministers held to the same normal standards others are? It's just wrong Very good read that article, thanks. Shows how Osborne like many before and after him go for immigration rather than tackle the more difficult but socially far better challenge to get more of our 9 million working age but economically inactive into GDP producing and self worth boosting employment. www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68534537
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Post by borgr0 on Aug 13, 2024 12:05:13 GMT
I posted that link originally on UKDebate in 2015ish, I remember debating with the late (and much missed) RJD about it at that time
It's all well and good espousing Neoliberal economics, as RJD often did, but the fact is it don't work and even Thatcher buried her own legacy on an interview in 1993, which has mysteriously disappeared from YouTube as of 2019. You won't get anywhere by simply abolishing the minimum wage, trying to force people into work who for whatever reason can't work and by trying out failed Tory austerity economics as tried under the coalition govt. It never had a chance of working and never will - IMHO
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Post by borgr0 on Aug 13, 2024 12:53:08 GMT
It must be said, I'm not sure I even feel that safe going back to the UK, after all it's not like I'm white and Hastings can be fairly racist at the best of times. There are racial riots and now all this police state nonsense to top it off, so the worst of both worlds combined together - the worst of both the far-right and left engaging in utmost stupidity
I'd feel a lot safer in Stoke Newington in London, where I am from originally but the rest of the UK is nothing like that. The UK seems so utterly knackered at the moment - the idea that Keir Starmer is going to fix things is just laughable I'm afraid
Maybe America really is a safer bet than the UK the way things are going - and I never thought I'd say that
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Post by AvonCalling on Aug 13, 2024 15:12:06 GMT
It's pretty obvious that not all of the people protesting were thugs, many were peaceful protesters and quite a few were campaigners against knife crime, others were also campaigning to raise money for the families of the kids. I saw this captured on video very clearly in Middlesbrough where ignorant little toads ran around smashing every single house and car on street after street - where were the police then? They were busy kettling innocent protesters who had done nothing The actual lawbreakers who blew up cars, broke into people's houses, assaulted random people on the streets were allowed to get away with it while the police stood back and watched. BTW, most protesters surveilled on all those videos clearly say they disavow the violence and find it intolerable, some point out they refuse to get involved because they will be attacked if they try to stop it - that's the police's job once again The fact that all protesters are being tarred with the same brush, and the fact everyone is being associated with Tommy Robinson when people went there to make their feelings felt of all colours, creeds etc is clearly exactly what you expect from the ultra-corrupt media and those associated with it I won't bother linking any videos, because minds have been made up and people obviously aren't interested in the actual truth and I'll be told I am a troll for pointing all this out most probably So Trolly Troll McTrollFace ( ). Generally I think the response in this thread has been quite balanced and people have stated that despite the right wing nature of the protestors (and I agree that is my experience of how the media has reported it) there is an geniune issue regarding immigration and it's unwanted affect on the country (and for me it's about the volume of immigration not immigration per se).
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 13, 2024 17:15:16 GMT
And that 'all protesters are being tarred with the same brush' was anything but the 'fact' it was supposed as
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borgr0
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Post by borgr0 on Aug 13, 2024 19:43:20 GMT
It's pretty obvious that not all of the people protesting were thugs, many were peaceful protesters and quite a few were campaigners against knife crime, others were also campaigning to raise money for the families of the kids. I saw this captured on video very clearly in Middlesbrough where ignorant little toads ran around smashing every single house and car on street after street - where were the police then? They were busy kettling innocent protesters who had done nothing The actual lawbreakers who blew up cars, broke into people's houses, assaulted random people on the streets were allowed to get away with it while the police stood back and watched. BTW, most protesters surveilled on all those videos clearly say they disavow the violence and find it intolerable, some point out they refuse to get involved because they will be attacked if they try to stop it - that's the police's job once again The fact that all protesters are being tarred with the same brush, and the fact everyone is being associated with Tommy Robinson when people went there to make their feelings felt of all colours, creeds etc is clearly exactly what you expect from the ultra-corrupt media and those associated with it I won't bother linking any videos, because minds have been made up and people obviously aren't interested in the actual truth and I'll be told I am a troll for pointing all this out most probably So Trolly Troll McTrollFace ( ). Generally I think the response in this thread has been quite balanced and people have stated that despite the right wing nature of the protestors (and I agree that is my experience of how the media has reported it) there is an geniune issue regarding immigration and it's unwanted affect on the country (and for me it's about the volume of immigration not immigration per se). Most seem to see the protesters as violent rioters and nothing else and haven't commented on the peaceful nature of any of the protests at all. that's been completely ignored
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Post by borgr0 on Aug 13, 2024 19:44:26 GMT
And that 'all protesters are being tarred with the same brush' was anything but the 'fact' it was supposed as You've pointed out some of the protesters were peaceful as opposed to saying they were violent thugs where on the forum? Nowhere. Other than me, I haven't seen anyone else defend any of the protesters at those marches, you're probably going to insist I mean "all protesters" that have ever existed or something similarly bizarre in an attempt at pedantry though
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Post by Amadan on Aug 14, 2024 7:28:50 GMT
It must be said, I'm not sure I even feel that safe going back to the UK, after all it's not like I'm white and Hastings can be fairly racist at the best of times. There are racial riots and now all this police state nonsense to top it off, so the worst of both worlds combined together - the worst of both the far-right and left engaging in utmost stupidity I'd feel a lot safer in Stoke Newington in London, where I am from originally but the rest of the UK is nothing like that. The UK seems so utterly knackered at the moment - the idea that Keir Starmer is going to fix things is just laughable I'm afraid Maybe America really is a safer bet than the UK the way things are going - and I never thought I'd say that first of all I think it sad you feel that way about the "uk" and coming back. Let's be clear here , first and foremost , the race riots have been taking place in England primarily , and a few in Northern Ireland. Not the uk. Both England and Northern Ireland have the two lowest levels of migrants per capita in the uk nations. I think there are many issues that set these riots off. Im unconvinced they are primarily down to pure racism . Im unconvinced hordes of far right are lurking in the background pulling strings. All nations have the right to stop , control restrict or flood their country with migrants. Its the rhetoric by the mainstream media, the hiding of the identity of the black guy who killed they weee lassies and the silence over motive , leading to more speculation , as well as the hardships being faced by people in England and a whole host of reasons that will probably take weeks to delve into . I fully agree with you over starmer though. Labour are a large part of the uk problems , rather than the solution to those problems. Starmer is merely tasked with two things , manage decline , and continue to try and present the illusion of the uks power , especially to the plebs.
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