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Post by Orac on Aug 12, 2024 9:03:44 GMT
Which bit is giving you difficulty? Lets start from the top and so how far we get with the logic Do you agree there is no objective test that can be performed to tell if a person is a Muslim? No. There are many ways to check if someone is a Muslim. Really? Would you like to describe the test you think is most unequivocal? For instance, if a young man converted to Islam several days ago, this test would be able to detect the fact regardless of his own silence on the matter It is quite bizarre that you are prepared to deny simple reasoning on this particular issue
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Post by Zany on Aug 12, 2024 9:15:43 GMT
No. There are many ways to check if someone is a Muslim. Really? Would you like to describe the test you think is most unequivocal? For instance, if a young man converted to Islam several days ago, this test would be able to detect the fact regardless of his own silence on the matter It is quite bizarre that you are prepared to deny simple reasoning on this particular issue Yes, attendance of a Mosque, Wifes head covering, requirement to face the Grand Mosque when praying, their historical movements, ask relations etc You appear to be asking a different question. Could a Muslim hide his faith. Well yes though with difficulty.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on Aug 12, 2024 9:52:42 GMT
I didn't make it clear that I was referring to the BBC for the simple fact that I was not referring to the BBC. Th e electoral promise is the manifesto and as I have comprehensively proven, the manifesto did not contain the promise you have imagined was given. Not that the electorate endorsed the manifesto anyway making the promise moot. You have spent page after page with false accounts of what was promised and false accounts of what I've posted. You must be so proud. The Conservative party manifesto 2010 general-election-2010.co.uk/2010-general-election-manifestos/Conservative-Party-Manifesto-2010.pdfImmigration has enriched our nation over the years and we want to attract the brightest and the best people who can make a real difference to our economic growth. But immigration today is too high and needs to be reduced. We do not need to attract people to do jobs that could be carried out by British citizens, given the right training and support. So we will take steps to take net migration back to the levels of the 1990s – tens of thousands a year, not hundreds of thousands.The 2015 manifesto. Our plan to control immigration will put you, your family and the British people first. We will reduce the number of people coming to our country with tough new welfare conditions and robust enforcement. We will: keep our ambition of delivering annual net migration in the tens of thousands, not the
hundreds of thousands
You are kidding yourself, but not me. Read this again and maybe finally you'll understand: www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/take-steps-to-do-something No absolute promise to achieve it, not elected anyway and absolute no international criminal conspiracy as Orac asserted and you keep defending.
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Post by Zany on Aug 12, 2024 11:32:18 GMT
The Conservative party manifesto 2010 general-election-2010.co.uk/2010-general-election-manifestos/Conservative-Party-Manifesto-2010.pdfImmigration has enriched our nation over the years and we want to attract the brightest and the best people who can make a real difference to our economic growth. But immigration today is too high and needs to be reduced. We do not need to attract people to do jobs that could be carried out by British citizens, given the right training and support. So we will take steps to take net migration back to the levels of the 1990s – tens of thousands a year, not hundreds of thousands.The 2015 manifesto. Our plan to control immigration will put you, your family and the British people first. We will reduce the number of people coming to our country with tough new welfare conditions and robust enforcement. We will: keep our ambition of delivering annual net migration in the tens of thousands, not the hundreds of thousands
You are kidding yourself, but not me. Read this again and maybe finally you'll understand: www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/take-steps-to-do-something No absolute promise to achieve it, not elected anyway and absolute no international criminal conspiracy as Orac asserted and you keep defending. I don't need to read it again, I and everyone other interested party are aware that to you ,taking steps towards cutting immigration, means increasing it every year until you get kicked out and there are protest riots in the streets. But I am truly grateful for this insight into how a genuine Tories think. Assuming of course that even they actually agree with your ludicrous interpretation of the words.
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Post by Orac on Aug 12, 2024 11:39:38 GMT
To weaken a population's aggregate resistance to tyranny The damage to social cohesion is of course important and, if the newly introduced population is broadly tyranny-positive or simply unfamiliar with, or hostile to, democratic society, that's a bonus.- If you want to do x and a population wants to do Y, introducing the correct foreign client groups can make X more feasible.and Y less feasible Oh yes you only have to look at India Pakistan and Bangladesh to see how those peoples welcome tyranny and don't fight it. Sigh. Well said. Both countries are , from an English cultural perspective, complete and utter tips
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Post by Orac on Aug 12, 2024 11:40:35 GMT
Really? Would you like to describe the test you think is most unequivocal? For instance, if a young man converted to Islam several days ago, this test would be able to detect the fact regardless of his own silence on the matter It is quite bizarre that you are prepared to deny simple reasoning on this particular issue Yes, attendance of a Mosque, Wifes head covering, requirement to face the Grand Mosque when praying, their historical movements, ask relations etc You appear to be asking a different question. Could a Muslim hide his faith. Well yes though with difficulty. You clearly didn't read my post. Want to give it another go?
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Post by Orac on Aug 12, 2024 11:41:27 GMT
No. But my position here doesn't change the logic. Far from being lunatic, it is patently obvious that having a large Muslim population in your territory affords more opportunity for your people to be attacked by Muslims And a large non Muslim population in your territory affords more opportunity for your people to be attacked by non Muslims Why argue with me, when you actually agree?
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Post by Orac on Aug 12, 2024 11:46:20 GMT
If catholic society had historically and recently posed itself as in opposition to important parts of our society and significant threads of catholic opinion called intrinsic aspects of our society (like democracy) Satan and declared themselves in a historic war with us and Catholic engaged in rampaging Machete attacks on our citizens while shouting 'our lady', then i would suggest that moving large numbers of Catholics into our community was a very bad idea. I don't think you would disagree with this - the odd thing is how you seem to get 'stuck on stupid' when it comes to Muslims in particular. You whole framing suggests that this isn't a risk we are visiting on ourselves. It actually requires effort on our part to force these people into the country against the wishes of the UK public. Which bits of our society has the Muslim church said they were opposed to important parts of our society? You seem to be mistaking extreme minority groups of the Muslim church with the main body. Or do you mean if tiny parts of the Christian church opposed significant parts of our society, would I think moving large numbers of Catholics into our community was a very bad idea. There is no such thing as the Muslim churchMuslims have been polled and the attitudes that are evident are pretty damn disturbing. Of course, your idiotic position regarding this culture would be harmless enough if you weren't also forcing them on the unwilling
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Post by Zany on Aug 12, 2024 12:34:52 GMT
Yes, attendance of a Mosque, Wifes head covering, requirement to face the Grand Mosque when praying, their historical movements, ask relations etc You appear to be asking a different question. Could a Muslim hide his faith. Well yes though with difficulty. You clearly didn't read my post. Want to give it another go? Because you couched your post to try and steer the answer. Your question becomes, if a man appears out of nowhere with no history and no context and hides the fact he is a Muslim, can tell if he's a Muslim. And you get the answer you seek. No.
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Post by Zany on Aug 12, 2024 12:39:43 GMT
Oh yes you only have to look at India Pakistan and Bangladesh to see how those peoples welcome tyranny and don't fight it. Sigh. Well said. Both countries are , from an English cultural perspective, complete and utter tips And the people fight their governments to try and get democracy. Bangladesh's Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina has secured her fourth straight term in a controversial election. Ms Hasina will serve another five years in office after her party the Awami League and its allies won 225 of 300 parliamentary seats contested. With the main opposition Bangladesh Nationalist Party boycotting the poll, Ms Hasina's party and allies are expected to win the remaining seats as well. The BNP alleged the poll was a sham. Sunday's result comes after mass arrests of BNP leaders and supporters.You think that makes them not bothered about keeping it.
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Post by dappy on Aug 12, 2024 13:28:13 GMT
It’s an interesting paradox that I suspect the owner of this site would dearly love this site to be similar to the cesspit of racism and conspiracy theories the other site has become only with even less moderation but has seen his site hijacked by those who want more civilized real world debate whereas Tinculin would like his site to be the home of civilized real world debate but has lost control and seen it descend into that cess pit.
Should they swap?
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,597
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Post by Steve on Aug 12, 2024 14:08:27 GMT
It’s an interesting paradox that I suspect the owner of this site would dearly love this site to be similar to the cesspit of racism and conspiracy theories the other site has become only with even less moderation but has seen his site hijacked by those who want more civilized real world debate whereas Tinculin would like his site to be the home of civilized real world debate but has lost control and seen it descend into that cess pit. Should they swap? Might be an idea. FWIW despite my big disagreements with Tincs over issues chez Tinc, I think he's a goodun and always to be thanked for stepping up to provide a lifeboat site when Fox had had enough.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,597
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Post by Steve on Aug 12, 2024 14:31:02 GMT
I don't need to read it again, I and everyone other interested party are aware that to you ,taking steps towards cutting immigration, means increasing it every year until you get kicked out and there are protest riots in the streets. But I am truly grateful for this insight into how a genuine Tories think. Assuming of course that even they actually agree with your ludicrous interpretation of the words. No it doesn't. As per the Collins dictionary it meant to undertake measures with a view to the attainment of reducing immigration to tens of thousandsBut they weren't elected were they, they had to do a deal with the Liberals which meant making limits on their powers and some policy concessions. As a result those essentially weazle words didn't survive and instead it became 'We will introduce an annual limit on the number of non-EU economic migrants admitted into the UK to live and work. We will consider jointly the mechanism for implementing the limit.'In 2013 they gave an update on progress showing immigration had been cut (see p36) assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7b9878e5274a7318b8fafd/HMG_MidTermReview.pdfAt which point it went wrong rising again however they put in place limits on the main categories AND passed the 2014 immigration Act. Another worthwhile read researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05829/SN05829.pdfThey tried in constrained circumstances and anyone making the BIG allegation they falsely got themselves elected always intending to betray that as soon as elected because they were part of 'an international criminal conspiracy' is talking out of their arse and helping the cause of those that wanted riots. Why you defended such just defeats me. I will defend anyone from false attack, yes even the Tories.
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Post by montegriffo on Aug 12, 2024 16:02:59 GMT
It’s an interesting paradox that I suspect the owner of this site would dearly love this site to be similar to the cesspit of racism and conspiracy theories the other site has become only with even less moderation but has seen his site hijacked by those who want more civilized real world debate whereas Tinculin would like his site to be the home of civilized real world debate but has lost control and seen it descend into that cess pit. Should they swap? Might be an idea. FWIW despite my big disagreements with Tincs over issues chez Tinc, I think he's a goodun and always to be thanked for stepping up to provide a lifeboat site when Fox had had enough. Definitely not. Tinculin is an authoritarian who bypasses his mod' team and acts unilaterally when it suits him. He uses his self appointed powers as a weapon when he gets into a heated disagreement on one of his hobby horse subjects (Ukraine, Gaza, NATO etc). Whilst I may strongly disagree with Orac on many political topics I much prefer his hands off 'laisse faire' approach to running a site.
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Post by Zany on Aug 12, 2024 19:12:53 GMT
It’s an interesting paradox that I suspect the owner of this site would dearly love this site to be similar to the cesspit of racism and conspiracy theories the other site has become only with even less moderation but has seen his site hijacked by those who want more civilized real world debate whereas Tinculin would like his site to be the home of civilized real world debate but has lost control and seen it descend into that cess pit. Should they swap? You couldn't be more wrong. Orac wants to be able to express his views on site not littered with insults trolling and petty oneupmanship. We can greedily disagree with him. You can think your view is the only one worth while all in peace. Orac loves the way I run this site and supports me via PM every time. Do I want Tinc? no thanks, give me an anarchist over a dictator any day.
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