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Post by vinny on Jul 22, 2024 12:38:44 GMT
He said it to the American hard right who then started fighting.
And when did he tell them "stop, I didn't mean actually fight"?
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 22, 2024 12:45:47 GMT
He said it to the American hard right who then started fighting. And when did he tell them "stop, I didn't mean actually fight"? He was clearly paralysed wanting them to succeed but knowing it was wrong. But inaction is not incitement so you can't convict on that. The chances of a fair court convicting him for that riot can best be described as 'bugger all'. Morally guilty maybe but criminally? No |
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Post by Orac on Jul 22, 2024 14:23:48 GMT
"And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore." In fact,I don't think it is ( strictly speaking) even figurative usage. The word 'fight' has two accepted meanings - 1 Take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons. 2 Struggle to overcome, eliminate, or prevent. It was a literal / plain usage of basic, common English. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 22, 2024 17:57:58 GMT
Every time I hear the head of America's Secret service saying. Trumps protection was an operational failure I keep expecting her to add, "We bloody missed"
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Post by Orac on Jul 22, 2024 18:15:04 GMT
Every time I hear the head of America's Secret service saying. Trumps protection was an operational failure I keep expecting her to add, "We bloody missed" The map of the area i have seen places the sniper very much to Donald Trump's left
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Post by Zany on Jul 22, 2024 18:18:32 GMT
Every time I hear the head of America's Secret service saying. Trumps protection was an operational failure I keep expecting her to add, "We bloody missed" The map of the area i have seen places the sniper very much to Donald Trump's left
Well you know how anti conspiracy I am, but this time I'm not so sure. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 22, 2024 20:00:42 GMT
Sure looks like Trump's right to me  |
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Post by Orac on Jul 22, 2024 20:09:49 GMT
The map of the area i have seen places the sniper very much to Donald Trump's left
Well you know how anti conspiracy I am, but this time I'm not so sure. Oops! It looks l;like that may be wrong. Apologies |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2024 21:49:48 GMT
Very easy isn't it? Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.WaPoDo you want the CBS interview itself before you keep digging your hole? You also shredded nothing except your own argument on the Starmer thread. You were just shown Starmer approved of the earlier decision NOT to prosecute the officers behind Menezes' murder after 2006 - and the pattern continues with Ian Tomlinson also, ie that's how he is. You can't dispute that, so will try to get threads closed Also best not to make it personal as regards papa etc as you did the other day Seems you didn't realise I didn't name such person and he isn't a member of this forum. Seems you don't realise that there is a big difference between saying 'the Russians stole the election' and 'Trump stole it' Seems you don't realise that digging up a September 2019 article in no way supports a 'to this day' claim Seems you don't realise this thread is not about your false claims in the Starmer thread 1) You made a personal attack on my character, yes or no? 2) She said the Russians stole it, that's the original claim and that's what the link shows? 3) Ridiculous pedantry. She has doubled down on that line many times since. 4) Aren't you the one who keeps bringing stuff like that up? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2024 21:51:53 GMT
I believe Amadan is making a point that if you believe Brexit was stolen by "the Russians", you believe the US election was most likely stolen by them too - and he's right that it's ridiculous to say either one was stolen by the Russians - in both cases people made their choices clear. That's not say Russia did not heavily meddle.
To use that same justification to try and overturn democracy - when you don't like it - makes you like Trump; you just sound like a 2020 election denying Trumpist when you say Brexit was stolen by the Russians, or the 2016 election was stolen by them. It's no different.
The 2019 Jo Swinson-ites were a lot like 2020 Trumpists - claiming the referendum was stolen and can be overturned at will
It's not like the UK and US and other countries haven't meddled in elections for donkey's years.
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Post by montegriffo on Jul 22, 2024 22:02:59 GMT
This however is very relevant. Trump should have gone to prison for this. There's people who want Farage , Johnson , sturgeon , trump , etc etc all to go to prison. Much of it nothing more than they totally disagree with their political ideology. You are one of the worst though. We dont seem to be in a very positive place at the minute with western world democracy . The uk and USA certainly appear to be very unstable. screaming about jailing politicians I dont personally think is helpful or conducive to democracy. Farage, Boris and Sturgeon did not raise a mob and storm Parliament. Nor are they rapist, fraudulent, convicted criminals. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2024 22:16:27 GMT
He said it to the American hard right who then started fighting. And when did he tell them "stop, I didn't mean actually fight"? He was clearly paralysed wanting them to succeed but knowing it was wrong. But inaction is not incitement so you can't convict on that. The chances of a fair court convicting him for that riot can best be described as 'bugger all'. Morally guilty maybe but criminally? No Disagreed, he clearly incited the riot and started that insurrection with both his actions and words over many years. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 22, 2024 23:07:46 GMT
There's people who want Farage , Johnson , sturgeon , trump , etc etc all to go to prison. Much of it nothing more than they totally disagree with their political ideology. You are one of the worst though. We dont seem to be in a very positive place at the minute with western world democracy . The uk and USA certainly appear to be very unstable. screaming about jailing politicians I dont personally think is helpful or conducive to democracy. Farage, Boris and Sturgeon did not raise a mob and storm Parliament. Nor are they rapist, fraudulent, convicted criminals. If you have evidence that Trump stormed the Capitol, you should share it. As for the rapist thing - you realise there was no evidence that Trump was even at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime, nor was even determined when (to the nearest few years) the crime supposedly took place? It might be simpler to just say, there was no real evidence of a crime or evidence that Trump was involved - or even, more simply, there was just no evidence (full stop) In this light, you waving the word 'rapist' around casually is equivalent to standing on stage and deciding to shove your head up your backside to see if anyone claps. What an accomplished contortionist you are |
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Post by Orac on Jul 22, 2024 23:12:55 GMT
He was clearly paralysed wanting them to succeed but knowing it was wrong. But inaction is not incitement so you can't convict on that. The chances of a fair court convicting him for that riot can best be described as 'bugger all'. Morally guilty maybe but criminally? No Disagreed, he clearly incited the riot and started that insurrection with both his actions and words over many years. However, applying this standard generally would mean that rafts of politicians were convicted on incitement charges at every occurrence of political violence. That sounds a little unwieldy to me., Funny how everyone forgets about that 18 month long arson, assault, theft and vandalism spree that, was not only arguably incited by political rhetoric, but was explicitly backed by many significant political figures. |
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Post by montegriffo on Jul 22, 2024 23:32:16 GMT
Farage, Boris and Sturgeon did not raise a mob and storm Parliament. Nor are they rapist, fraudulent, convicted criminals. If you have evidence that Trump stormed the Capitol, you should share it. As for the rapist thing - you realise there was no evidence that Trump was even at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime, nor was even determined when (to the nearest few years) the crime supposedly took place? It might be simpler to just say, there was no real evidence of a crime or evidence that Trump was involved - or even, more simply, there was just no evidence (full stop) In this light, you waving the word 'rapist' around casually is equivalent to standing on stage and deciding to shove your head up your backside to see if anyone claps. What an accomplished contortionist you are One court has found him guilty of sexual assault and there are about 25 other accusations waiting to be tried. The only thing stopping Trump from joining his mob at the Capitol was his secret service team. According to one witness he tried to grab the steering wheel when he was refused. |
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