Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 22, 2024 8:42:28 GMT
Orac got it wrong, deal with it. I didn't get it wrong. Nothing i said was incorrect or a lie. H. Clinton maintained for years that the 2016 election was 'stolen by Russia'. Have you been living under a rock? ...or is this another example the same kind of bizarre cognitive skip that allowed you not to notice for years that Biden had a serious impediment? And yet you cannot offer a single link to back your claim. There is an obvious explanation for such. Interesting though that you've started to water it down. |
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Post by vinny on Jul 22, 2024 8:52:12 GMT
Prigozhin's Internet Research Agency ran a very intense pro Trump campaign on social media including twitter. And, before he was murdered, he boasted about his role in interfering in the 2016 and 2012 US elections. Why did Prigozhin interfere in 2012? Mitt Romney was warning about Russia at that time. Obama laughed at him. Turns out Romney was right. . Russia has interfered in American politics, in British politics and so forth on social media. the claim was made Russia interfered in the Brexit referendum if I recall. There was Internet Research Agency interference on social media and on forums.
The Russian Web Brigades are still operating.
In 12 years time there should be another membership referendum. We've left. We're trying out independence from the EU. If in 12 years the country votes to join whatever the EU becomes (it's currently undergoing treaty change, it's in a state of flux and upheaval right now), then so be it. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 22, 2024 8:56:03 GMT
I didn't get it wrong. Nothing i said was incorrect or a lie. H. Clinton maintained for years that the 2016 election was 'stolen by Russia'. Have you been living under a rock? ...or is this another example the same kind of bizarre cognitive skip that allowed you not to notice for years that Biden had a serious impediment? And yet you cannot offer a single link to back your claim. There is an obvious explanation for such. Interesting though that you've started to water it down. My claim has remained identical all the way through this discussion. I took pains to make sure this was the case, even going as far as copying my original words into replies, because your first response to me was so obviously an attempt at a strawman - ie countering a statement i never made. I have no need to post a link. I'm quite happy with you making yourself look like a complete buffoon by stubbornly denying a reality that was all over the news the months / years |
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Post by Amadan on Jul 22, 2024 8:57:31 GMT
the claim was made Russia interfered in the Brexit referendum if I recall. There was Internet Research Agency interference on social media and on forums.
The Russian Web Brigades are still operating.
In 12 years time there should be another membership referendum. We've left. We're trying out independence from the EU. If in 12 years the country votes to join whatever the EU becomes (it's currently undergoing treaty change, it's in a state of flux and upheaval right now), then so be it. Vinny you are waffling. If you believe a foreign power interfered in our democracy, then clearly the result is illegitimate , and this needs re run. You cant waffle on about some arbitery timescale as you do when pushed on various things you dont like to delay a re run. If the Brexit ref was interfered with. , the result shouldn't stand. If you believe it should stand , then stop moaning about alleged interference. You are making yourself look silly once more. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 22, 2024 8:59:53 GMT
And yet you cannot offer a single link to back your claim. There is an obvious explanation for such. Interesting though that you've started to water it down. My claim has remained identical all the way through this discussion. I took pains to make sure this was the case, even going as far as copying my original words into replies, because your first response to me was so obviously an attempt at a strawman - ie countering a statement i never made. I have no need to post a link. I'm quite happy with you making yourself look like a complete buffoon by stubbornly denying a reality that was all over the news the months / years Oh look personal abuse, you must be so proud. You changed your claim from 'to this day Hilary Clinton maintains the 2016 election was 'stolen by Russians' to the watered down 'Clinton maintained for years that the 2016 election was 'stolen by Russia' Fact And you have woefully failed to back either of them with anything other than your abusive view |
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Post by vinny on Jul 22, 2024 9:01:27 GMT
The role of the Russian Web Brigades was minor.
The role of the tabloids was major.
The role of the tv, of debate, of David Cameron's failures, was major.
Oh and the role of industrial decline, was major.
Look at where people voted most heavily for leave.
Industrial decline occurred there.
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Post by Amadan on Jul 22, 2024 9:04:36 GMT
My claim has remained identical all the way through this discussion. I took pains to make sure this was the case, even going as far as copying my original words into replies, because your first response to me was so obviously an attempt at a strawman - ie countering a statement i never made. I have no need to post a link. I'm quite happy with you making yourself look like a complete buffoon by stubbornly denying a reality that was all over the news the months / years Oh look personal abuse, you must be so proud. You changed your claim from 'to this day Hilary Clinton maintains the 2016 election was 'stolen by Russians' to the watered down 'Clinton maintained for years that the 2016 election was 'stolen by Russia' Fact And you have woefully failed to back either of them with anything other than your abusive view she said both. She called trump an illegal president , claimed Russia had interered in the presidential election , and latterly watered it down to saying Russia may have interfered. I cant believe you are even trying to argue this point. You had the cheek to slur my character on here yesterday , when you must be one of the most dishonest posters on the inter web. Then you scream personal abuse and run off when challenged. is Orac going on ignore for daring to question you today? |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 22, 2024 9:04:39 GMT
The Russian Web Brigades role was minor. The role of the tabloids was major. The role of the tv, of debate, of David Cameron's failures, was major. Not so sure. They hacked into the Clinton campaign's servers which allowed the rival campaign to far more precisely target its campaining both geographically and in content. In an election won by targetting electoral college votes over the popular vote it might well have been the deciding factor |
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Post by Amadan on Jul 22, 2024 9:06:42 GMT
The role of the Russian Web Brigades was minor. The role of the tabloids was major. The role of the tv, of debate, of David Cameron's failures, was major. Oh and the role of industrial decline, was major. Look at where people voted most heavily for leave. Industrial decline occurred there. no Vinny. Major or minor , if you maintain interference by a foreign power on uk democracy , then you are calling into question democracies legitimacy. If you feel so strong about Brexit , then surely common sense would tell you not to question its legitimacy in the first place and give your opponents ammo? Dearie me. |
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Post by Amadan on Jul 22, 2024 9:08:05 GMT
Look at where people voted most heavily for leave. Industrial decline occurred there. it doesn't matter the reason why folk voted vinny. only a complete fool would call into question a referendums legitimacy his side won..... |
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Post by vinny on Jul 22, 2024 9:08:53 GMT
There's always been interference in our elections.
Look at the tabloids.
They don't simply report news, they push ideology.
Now, look at industrial decline, particularly in Red Wall areas.
There's the real reason for Brexit.
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Post by vinny on Jul 22, 2024 9:10:19 GMT
The Russian Web Brigades role was minor. The role of the tabloids was major. The role of the tv, of debate, of David Cameron's failures, was major. Not so sure. They hacked into the Clinton campaign's servers which allowed the rival campaign to far more precisely target its campaining both geographically and in content. In an election won by targetting electoral college votes over the popular vote it might well have been the deciding factor Ok, that's a bit more suss then. I see your point. |
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Post by Amadan on Jul 22, 2024 9:10:34 GMT
There's always been interference in our elections. so if interference is the norm , why are you bleating about it? |
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Post by vinny on Jul 22, 2024 9:12:58 GMT
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Post by Amadan on Jul 22, 2024 9:13:07 GMT
. Now, look at industrial decline, particularly in Red Wall areas. There's the real reason for Brexit. vinny we dont need to re run all the arguments for and against Brexit. We have went over them ad nauseam. You ,as a brexiter , are calling into question the legitimacy of a referendum you won. Surely it would be wise first to decide who you hate more , Russia or the EU , and then either ignore alleged Russian interference so Brexit stands unsullied , or be prepared for the referendum to be null and void if you hate Putin more ? |
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