Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 8, 2024 12:05:05 GMT
Can we get back onto the topic of the French election please? Does anyone think that the result is a very bad result for France and represents a growing problem? I think it most definitely is a bad result and there's a danger of an RM Presidency. Does anyone disagree with me? A challenging result maybe but not 'a very bad result' It confirms yet again that neither the hard left and hard right have a majority there |
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borgr0
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Post by borgr0 on Jul 8, 2024 12:22:11 GMT
Can we get back onto the topic of the French election please? Does anyone think that the result is a very bad result for France and represents a growing problem? I think it most definitely is a bad result and there's a danger of an RM Presidency. Does anyone disagree with me? The topic never strayed from the French election Someone is suggesting the French election was won by a party (or parties) controlled by jihadis and child traffickers, presumably the 'New Popular Front' and the 'Ensemble Alliance' We await Orac's proof that any of that is true, if someone makes a claim they should be held to account for it |
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 12:23:54 GMT
There are many theories why voter turn out was small. The most obvious are: 1, Many Tory voters stayed at home, not wishing to vote Labour or Reform. 2, The rest of the Tories split themselves between Libdem and Reform. 2, Labour voters towards the middle left (Me) were happy we weren't going to get a Corbynite government and voted Labour. 3, Many saw the result was going to be a given, so didn't bother to vote. The idea that the Tories had moved too far left is wrong, if they had they would have captured centre left folk like me. (I have voted both Tory and Labour) Reform took 13% of the vote, out of a populace where only 60% voted at all (=8% of voters). There was no huge push to the right, its a fallacy. Fact is the Tories were just crap, corrupt, lying and lazy. People wanted to see government doing something, almost anything is better than watching your country fall apart while your leaders argue among themselves and line their pockets. Struggling to pay your bills while seeing scandal after scandal nicking money and going unpunished. The big winner this year is the Don't vote party. They gained 5 million votes. How many were Disenfranchised Tories, how many Disenfranchised Labour and how many just didn't bother because the result was a given. Who knows. Would be interesting to know how many Labour party members didn't vote. Not sure how many of the NEW non voters that is. Very many eligible voters don't ever vote. We are always going to have those who are unrepresented by the majority, Left and Right, that's inevitable. I think its a good thing to have both ends unsatisfied as it shows the elected party is in the middle. The problem comes when the middle ground party is rubbish, not trusted etc. This often happens when the economy is taking a hit. Yes a funny old time. This sounds like your wish list. I think these issues are best ameliorated buy build enough houses for the population. Landlords are much more reasonable when they can't guarantee a let. Indications are the Labour is looking forward to working with the Lib Dems on many issues. Make a super party to defat the Tories? Surely that further reduces voter choice. That's good news. I knew you couldn't bring yourself to vote tactically, but I'm sure you didn't want a Tory MP. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 12:25:02 GMT
I guess but the thread wandered as they do.  Could split them I spose. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 12:31:20 GMT
If you think ten million votes for a party that just two years ago didn't make it past 4.2 million votes constitutes a defeat, I've a bridge to sell you. This is serious stuff, their vote has more than doubled. Without a moderate alternative appearing on the scene and fast, they will get into power. What I challenge is that this shows the country is majority right wing anti immigration etc. Both right wing parties together only have 38% of those who voted. And 22% of the electorate. And I say we are seeing the peak, not the foot hills. |
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Post by vinny on Jul 8, 2024 12:37:24 GMT
Suddenly concern about immigration numbers and cross border crime is "right wing" is it?
No wonder France is so fucked that they're having to vote for such a fucking dreadful rabble.
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 13:21:16 GMT
Suddenly concern about immigration numbers and cross border crime is "right wing" is it? That is the claim often made. That left globalists snowflakes want to invite the world to live here. Feel free to dispute that, I'm happy. As a rule I would say the Left tend to be younger and more tolerant to change, which makes them more accepting of immigrants with different ways. Which lot are rabble and why? |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 8, 2024 13:25:34 GMT
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 13:31:34 GMT
We can all see the basic form - they were on the streets of Paris celebrating their win - the very same lumps who celebrated the infamous Jew barbecue. These criminal groups have a set of 'interests', which is is why they don't want immigration reduced. ie you have not a shred of evidence of this supposed sponsorship and worse seem to want to label anyone in France that isn't white as being members of ' child traffickers,Jihadis and drug cartels'Of course i have a shred of evidence The evidence is that these so called 'political forces' relentlessly, predictably and ruthlessly pursue the interests of criminal organisations. - ie child traffickers. I find your bafflement at the patently obvious intriguing. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 8, 2024 13:40:36 GMT
No they do not.
PS: what is 'patently obvious' is always evidencable.
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Post by vinny on Jul 8, 2024 13:47:18 GMT
Suddenly concern about immigration numbers and cross border crime is "right wing" is it? That is the claim often made. That left globalists snowflakes want to invite the world to live here. Feel free to dispute that, I'm happy. As a rule I would say the Left tend to be younger and more tolerant to change, which makes them more accepting of immigrants with different ways. Which lot are rabble and why? The RN, a rabble who I can't fucking stand. And regarding immigrants, immigration policy should be such that it fills gaps in the job market, provides international students with places to study and provides refuge to real refugees, it should not be such that it overwhelms the abilities of nations to cope with people who have no homes, no money, no skills and intense desperation.
There need to be safeguards in the system to protect people.
There are gangs smuggling people across France.
And there's uncontrolled immigration from the rest of the EU into France without safeguarding.
Both of which if you suggest answers to, you get demonised.
In France only the far right (who don't care about being demonised) are actually talking about it.
Over here, we had Nigel Farage, and him talking about it, destroyed the BNP, without ending immigration.
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 14:10:03 GMT
You are either asleep at the wheel or you just don't care. They obviously and predictably do. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 14:21:48 GMT
That is the claim often made. That left globalists snowflakes want to invite the world to live here. Feel free to dispute that, I'm happy. As a rule I would say the Left tend to be younger and more tolerant to change, which makes them more accepting of immigrants with different ways. Which lot are rabble and why? AW Vinny, what have you got against the Royal Navy   Seriously though. Rassemblement National’s RN are the far right party? Sadly for me this has changed in the UK. The sheer number of immigrants invited over the last decade means I think immigration needs to be reduced to a trickle. There always seems to be a shortage of people for essential jobs. We need to re-think how we find those people from the existing population.
Maybe we could encourage the retired to do a few hours or maybe we need to accept localised rather than individual rubbish collection, stuff like that. We can't just keep adding half a million people to the population every year.
Asylum seekers and illegal migrants are a different conversation, but then they make up less than 4% of arrivals. So don't effect overall population by much
Rather depends on what the answers are.
Well an issue is that the far right have owned immigration and anyone criticising it is associated with their vile views of non white people. So that makes it difficult.
Again Nigel doesn't seem to be able to stop the extreme racists joining his party and expressing their abhorrent views.
Personally I think Nigel is not a racist, I think he's a chancer who makes his money out of political disquiet.
You should see the eye watering amount his mate made sell shorts on the pound after Brexit.
But don't forget, he's on your side, honest.
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 14:22:59 GMT
You are either asleep at the wheel or you just don't care. They obviously and predictably do. Not much of an argument that Orac. They do because I say they do  |
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 14:26:57 GMT
You are either asleep at the wheel or you just don't care. They obviously and predictably do. Not much of an argument that Orac. They do because I say they do No - that isn't my argument. If someone is holding your front door open and letting people in, then it is reasonable to assume a motive to that effort. They wouldn't do it for no reason. |
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