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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 7:07:32 GMT
Fear of the far right Rassemblement National gaining power in France have gone as their opposition joined forces to stop it happening. The right are claiming they have been cheated and there is massive support for their views. So I wanted to see if that was true. And as usual its not. The vast majority don't want France cleaned out and immigrants sent home. And while they may want immigration slowed they are still very much afraid of what the far right might do if in power. www.ft.com/content/a7d4bd40-4f4f-41b7-bd96-4ef4a530972d In fact they got 29% of the vote. The reason they appeared to be doing so well is that the vote was split between the left and centre. The party with the highest percentage was the left wing Nouveau Front Populaire, but more importantly that left and centre represented 71%. The the EU is not falling apart on an immigration backlash and a crime wave as the right claim. These are issues but they are not the primary concern of the people. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 7:22:03 GMT
This is what o predicted. It will be followed by chaos.
Pacifico (on the other site) was citing le pen's success as evidence that PR did allow the establishment to be beaten. The Establishment decides where the coalitions are made, not the people.
Btw - I may have been blocked on the other site. I get a blank screen now
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 7:34:42 GMT
This is what o predicted. It will be followed by chaos. Pacifico (on the other site) was citing le pen's success as evidence that PR did allow the establishment to be beaten. The Establishment decides where the coalitions are made, not the people. Strange conclusion for Pacifico to reach, as under PR the right wing Rassemblement National would still be third. (But then I always found he could make numbers mean whatever he wanted) Never seen just a blank screen before. You still appear on the members list. and I can still message you. I'll discreetly ask, who would know? |
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 7:39:23 GMT
In fact they got 29% of the vote. The reason they appeared to be doing so well is that the vote was split between the left and centre. There is nothing anomalous (or wrong) about that - it is also split between right an centre |
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 7:41:42 GMT
In fact they got 29% of the vote. The reason they appeared to be doing so well is that the vote was split between the left and centre. There is nothing anomalous (or wrong) about that - it is also split between right an centre Indeed, but anyone climbing the people want the hard left would be laughed out of the room. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 7:44:42 GMT
There is nothing anomalous (or wrong) about that - it is also split between right an centre Indeed, but anyone climbing the people want the hard left would be laughed out of the room. The establishment have thrown their lot with the hard left - ie Jihadis. I'm not sure that's what most people voting centre were looking for. The establishment reacts very hysterically to the prospect of limiting immigration from shit-holes - perhaps they have business interests?. This move could blow up the system. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 8:03:45 GMT
Talking of business interests -
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 8:06:18 GMT
Indeed, but anyone climbing the people want the hard left would be laughed out of the room. The establishment have thrown their lot with the hard left - ie Jihadis. I'm not sure that's what most people voting centre were looking for. The establishment reacts very hysterically to the prospect of limiting immigration from shit-holes - perhaps they have business interests?. This move could blow up the system. I think the centre party are much like the Tories in the UK (Not politically) They are a party of indecision and bad judgement. Most people want a centre party but when that offer fails they migrate left and right. In the UK Starmer spotted this gap and moved Labour nearer the centre and collected the majority of the disenfranchised centre voters. They may be fearful of Labour, but they find it preferential to the hapless Tories. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 8:12:06 GMT
The establishment have thrown their lot with the hard left - ie Jihadis. I'm not sure that's what most people voting centre were looking for. The establishment reacts very hysterically to the prospect of limiting immigration from shit-holes - perhaps they have business interests?. This move could blow up the system. In the UK Starmer spotted this gap and moved Labour nearer the centre and collected the majority of the disenfranchised centre voters. They may be fearful of Labour, but they find it preferential to the hapless Tories. Not really. Labour's vote has stayed steady or declined and the Tories, who moved towards the centre, had their vote collapse. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 8:18:35 GMT
Talking of business interests - Not sure why you say 'business interests' (Was I supposed to see the Tommy Robinson interview?) |
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 8:22:34 GMT
Yes - Pakistani drug gangs and related 'trades'
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 8:31:22 GMT
In the UK Starmer spotted this gap and moved Labour nearer the centre and collected the majority of the disenfranchised centre voters. They may be fearful of Labour, but they find it preferential to the hapless Tories. Not really. Labour's vote has stayed steady or declined and the Tories, who moved towards the centre, had their vote collapse. There are many theories why voter turn out was small. The most obvious are: 1, Many Tory voters stayed at home, not wishing to vote Labour or Reform. 2, The rest of the Tories split themselves between Libdem and Reform. 2, Labour voters towards the middle left (Me) were happy we weren't going to get a Corbynite government and voted Labour. 3, Many saw the result was going to be a given, so didn't bother to vote. The idea that the Tories had moved too far left is wrong, if they had they would have captured centre left folk like me. (I have voted both Tory and Labour) Reform took 13% of the vote, out of a populace where only 60% voted at all (=8% of voters). There was no huge push to the right, its a fallacy. Fact is the Tories were just crap, corrupt, lying and lazy. People wanted to see government doing something, almost anything is better than watching your country fall apart while your leaders argue among themselves and line their pockets. Struggling to pay your bills while seeing scandal after scandal nicking money and going unpunished. |
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Post by Orac on Jul 8, 2024 8:46:53 GMT
Not really. Labour's vote has stayed steady or declined and the Tories, who moved towards the centre, had their vote collapse. There are many theories why voter turn out was small. The most obvious are: 1, Many Tory voters stayed at home, not wishing to vote Labour or Reform. 2, The rest of the Tories split themselves between Libdem and Reform. 2, Labour voters towards the middle left (Me) were happy we weren't going to get a Corbynite government and voted Labour. 3, Many saw the result was going to be a given, so didn't bother to vote. The idea that the Tories had moved too far left is wrong, if they had they would have captured centre left folk like me. (I have voted both Tory and Labour) It's not wrong, it just isn't what you want to paint. There are already two major pro-immigration parties, there really isn't room for a third (the Tories as well) The Tories had their greatest electoral success when they looked like they occupied the area now represented by reform. Their worst failure (a few days ago) coincided with their unambiguous (clear) abandonment of that territory. You keep talking about people m oving to Labour as a reaction to their centre-movement, but the Labour vote didn't increase. A lot of people who feel they occupy the centre-ground are very one-eyed in their analysis and think it is perfectly reasonable for all major parties to offer what they want - thereby disenfranchising their entire opposition. The big story in this election is gargantuan disengagement |
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 8:59:53 GMT
Yes - Pakistani drug gangs and related 'trades' Just wanted to be sure (There are several videos on the site) Yes I watched it all. It would be shocking were I not already aware how bad Luton is. The bit I found most disturbing is the idea that the Pakistani Muslims separated themselves and acting as a gang if confronted. I think tommy's mistake was to assume the whole country was the same as where he grew up. But I would ask all the people who claim mulitculturalism isn't a problem. Q: Why is it that towns with multiculturalism (Large amounts of immigration) are the ones who want it stopped and support far right parties. If nothings wrong and all good where these places? More importantly. How the hell did we allow the Tories to bring in 650,000 now people a year without taking to the streets? Is that because we all so feared being called racists. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 8, 2024 9:11:37 GMT
There are many theories why voter turn out was small. The most obvious are: 1, Many Tory voters stayed at home, not wishing to vote Labour or Reform. 2, The rest of the Tories split themselves between Libdem and Reform. 2, Labour voters towards the middle left (Me) were happy we weren't going to get a Corbynite government and voted Labour. 3, Many saw the result was going to be a given, so didn't bother to vote. The idea that the Tories had moved too far left is wrong, if they had they would have captured centre left folk like me. (I have voted both Tory and Labour) It's not wrong, it just isn't what you want to paint. There are already two major pro-immigration parties, there really isn't room for a third (the Tories as well) The Tories had their greatest electoral success when they looked like they occupied the area now represented by reform. Their worst failure (a few days ago) coincided with their unambiguous (clear) abandonment of that territory. You keep talking about people m oving to Labour as a reaction to their centre-movement, but the Labour vote didn't increase. A lot of people who feel they occupy the centre-ground are very one-eyed in their analysis and think it is perfectly reasonable for all major parties to offer what they want - thereby disenfranchising their entire opposition. The big story in this election is gargantuan disengagement Clearly your error here is to assume everyone voted on immigration. Just because its the only thing of interest to you does not make it the driving force for everyone else. Left wing does not mean pro immigration, it was other things people feared from a Corbyn government (Union power etc) |
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