RedRum
Full Member
"Smaller in number are we, but larger in mind.”
Posts: 245
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Post by RedRum on Jun 26, 2024 6:35:40 GMT
The Commission President (currently Ursula von der Leyen) is proposed by the European Council (the 27 heads of state/governments) and elected by the European Parliament.
Since 1979, the EU Parliament has been directly elected every five years by the citizens of the European Union through universal suffrage.
I am not sure how more democratic the EU can be.
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Post by Zany on Jun 26, 2024 6:58:53 GMT
If so many remoaners hadn't bitched about if we leave we could have had a debate and a referendum about how we left. . Cheers losers, what exactly did you do for democracy? Nothing. But I'll say this, I'd rather be free and poor, than being fabulously wealthy, but enslaved like Putin's oligarchs are. Independence is whatever we choose to do. Enslavement is being controlled. I want democracy. You can argue to abandon it and rejoin the EU, but, you'll lose. Did you have to dust off that tub before you started thumping it again. You think all the peoples of Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands Don't have democracy? Those tired old lines aren't convincing anyone anymore. As an aside, I'm in the Netherlands at the moment. The difference to the conditions in the UK are stark. The roads maintained, the people happy, no boarded up shops here, the economy thriving. Its a beautiful place like England used to be.
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Post by dappy on Jun 26, 2024 8:48:27 GMT
If so many remoaners hadn't bitched about if we leave we could have had a debate and a referendum about how we left. . Cheers losers, what exactly did you do for democracy? Nothing. But I'll say this, I'd rather be free and poor, than being fabulously wealthy, but enslaved like Putin's oligarchs are. Independence is whatever we choose to do. Enslavement is being controlled. I want democracy. You can argue to abandon it and rejoin the EU, but, you'll lose. Did you have to dust off that tub before you started thumping it again. You think all the peoples of Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands Don't have democracy? Those tired old lines aren't convincing anyone anymore. As an aside, I'm in the Netherlands at the moment. The difference to the conditions in the UK are stark. The roads maintained, the people happy, no boarded up shops here, the economy thriving. Its a beautiful place like England used to be. The last sentence is really interesting. I have just got back from Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. Much the same. Well maintained , seemingly thriving, safe, happy even the small non touristy towns I travelled through. I arrived back late in Luton so stayed overnight in St Albans. Herds of drunken yobs, vomit on the pavements, confrontation with police thoroughly depressing. Had much the same thoughts returning last year from Spain. Is this just an illusion or have we lost our way as a country.
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Post by vinny on Jun 26, 2024 9:08:04 GMT
Not in relation to the EU Commission (the only body in the EU with the power of legislative initiative), no. Voters cannot elect them, or sack them. And interestingly the EU itself is moving to change the treaties and give the power of legislative initiative to MEPs. www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20231117IPR12217/future-of-the-eu-parliament-s-proposals-to-amend-the-treatiesSomething that wasn't on the table in 2016. I have Dutch friends too, and you're right that it's a beautiful country. The roads were not maintained when we were in the EU, in case you hadn't noticed. And, unlike the Netherlands (which is in the Euro) our country had monumental industrial decline, large areas in poverty (North South divide), and the deprived areas voted to leave even more overwhelmingly than I did. But the important thing is this: We are talking about democracy, the ability to decide for ourselves who governs us. Except by means of a membership referendum, voters in the EU cannot sack the Commission if they do not like the Commission. Voters in the EU cannot initiate reform of the EU. Voters in the UK can sack the Tories if we do not like the Tories. You could hold a referendum on going back, but if you want to do that, I suggest you wait for the EU's already activated treaty change process to have completed. Profound reforms are being proposed and debated at the moment, which if successful, would change the political landscape. And, with that being the case, voters would have real power over the EU. I would not object to the EU under such circumstances. If we had a referendum on joining a reformed EU that was a true democracy, rather than the present Commission run mess, my attitude would be different.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,556
Member is Online
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Post by Steve on Jun 26, 2024 9:11:36 GMT
Told you before, if the EU had been reformed, I'd have voted to stay. It wasn't. They need to either replace the Commission with an elected body, or, repatriate powers back to elected governments and roll back the scale and cost of the EU's powers. It is neither good value for money, or democratic. It imposes protectionist tariffs on member states. The common agricultural policy is crap, the common fisheries policy is crap, and free movement is so fatally flawed it has killed people. It needs safeguards, instead it offers economic Darwinism. It doesn't work. It isn't a democracy, it is dangerous. It needs reforms that would never have happened if we'd stayed. On the contrary it certainly works, we know that. Massive increase in the standard of living for its residents, huge negotiating power in the world. And it's more of a democracy than the UK is
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Post by vinny on Jun 26, 2024 9:22:02 GMT
Massive increase in the standard of living for some of its residents. Millions dependent on foodbanks inside it. Poverty at 22% - 95.3 million people. ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230614-1And as I have already pointed out, the failings in the free movement policy, have killed people. Doesn't strike me as working. And the fact that we had a referendum on membership means we were the most democratic in respect to the EU, out of everyone who was in it, in 2016. Btw, the Tories are about to get sacked. The next government will have the power to change the voting system. Reform are likely to get some MPs, my guess 2-3 but millions of votes. Greens are likely to get 2-3 MPs and millions of votes. Lib Dems are likely to get tens of MPs and millions of votes. The calls for PR will grow from both left and right.
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Post by montegriffo on Jun 26, 2024 16:04:16 GMT
As someone who is 25% Gibraltarian I think the future of Gibraltar should be for Gibraltarians to decide.
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Post by Zany on Jun 26, 2024 16:10:02 GMT
Not in relation to the EU Commission (the only body in the EU with the power of legislative initiative), no. Voters cannot elect them, or sack them. And interestingly the EU itself is moving to change the treaties and give the power of legislative initiative to MEPs. www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20231117IPR12217/future-of-the-eu-parliament-s-proposals-to-amend-the-treatiesSomething that wasn't on the table in 2016. I have Dutch friends too, and you're right that it's a beautiful country. The roads were not maintained when we were in the EU, in case you hadn't noticed. And, unlike the Netherlands (which is in the Euro) our country had monumental industrial decline, large areas in poverty (North South divide), and the deprived areas voted to leave even more overwhelmingly than I did. But the important thing is this: We are talking about democracy, the ability to decide for ourselves who governs us. Except by means of a membership referendum, voters in the EU cannot sack the Commission if they do not like the Commission. Voters in the EU cannot initiate reform of the EU. Voters in the UK can sack the Tories if we do not like the Tories. You could hold a referendum on going back, but if you want to do that, I suggest you wait for the EU's already activated treaty change process to have completed. Profound reforms are being proposed and debated at the moment, which if successful, would change the political landscape. And, with that being the case, voters would have real power over the EU. I would not object to the EU under such circumstances. If we had a referendum on joining a reformed EU that was a true democracy, rather than the present Commission run mess, my attitude would be different. We've heard it all Vinny. As a voter you can't sack the house of lords of even a civil servant. Only your elected government can. So in theEU guess who can sack the civil servants (commission) The commission is a hybrid of our civil servants and our house of lords. A body independent of government that looks at the structural and legal ramifications of ideas from the council and advises changes and solutions. Vinny the lie worked at Brexit, because so few people knew how it worked, it doesn't work any more
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Post by Zany on Jun 26, 2024 16:13:23 GMT
As someone who is 25% Gibraltarian I think the future of Gibraltar should be for Gibraltarians to decide. Maybe, but there are wordings that can keep both sides happy, we just have to want them.
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Post by dappy on Jun 26, 2024 16:56:51 GMT
As someone who is 25% Gibraltarian I think the future of Gibraltar should be for Gibraltarians to decide. Does that mean you only get 1/4 of a vote?
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Post by montegriffo on Jun 26, 2024 16:58:59 GMT
As someone who is 25% Gibraltarian I think the future of Gibraltar should be for Gibraltarians to decide. Does that mean you only get 1/4 of a vote? As a non-resident I shouldn't be entitled to a vote, just an opinion.
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Post by Zany on Jun 26, 2024 17:11:29 GMT
Does that mean you only get 1/4 of a vote? As a non-resident I shouldn't be entitled to a vote, just an opinion. Go home filthy Gibraltarians ! I bet he bought all his relatives with him.
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Post by montegriffo on Jun 26, 2024 17:12:45 GMT
As a non-resident I shouldn't be entitled to a vote, just an opinion. Go home filthy Gibraltarians ! I bet he bought all his relatives with him. I saw a couple of Montegriffos yesterday as it happens.
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Post by Zany on Jun 26, 2024 17:37:13 GMT
Go home filthy Gibraltarians ! I bet he bought all his relatives with him. I saw a couple of Montegriffos yesterday as it happens. How was the crossing? Did the dinghy make it unassisted?
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Post by montegriffo on Jun 26, 2024 17:43:27 GMT
I saw a couple of Montegriffos yesterday as it happens. How was the crossing? Did the dinghy make it unassisted? Gibraltarians are of course full British citizens with UK passports but these particular Montegriffos came up from Hampshire so didn't pass through border control.
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