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Post by vinny on Jun 24, 2024 7:52:23 GMT
A deal on Gibraltar, withdraw from Cyprus.? Adopt the Euro. FoM Whatever it takes? Consider this, with opt outs from the Euro, Schengen and a rebate, you lost a referendum. What makes you think you could win next time? The EU needs reform. If it gets reform, I'm open to looking at what it becomes and seeing if it has improved.
Right now, it has not been reformed.
And we would not get good terms if we were to rejoin, under the present treaty.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Jun 24, 2024 9:00:21 GMT
A deal on Gibraltar, withdraw from Cyprus.? Adopt the Euro. FoM Whatever it takes? Consider this, with opt outs from the Euro, Schengen and a rebate, you lost a referendum. What makes you think you could win next time? . . Because we wouldn't let you cheat again and nobody would believe your lies a second time |
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Post by vinny on Jun 24, 2024 9:35:05 GMT
Your side lied like crazy last time and outspent leave.
Both sides cheated.
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Post by dappy on Jun 24, 2024 12:23:19 GMT
The reality is that without overwhelming political consensus -which doesn’t exist - it would be impossible to rejoin. They wouldn’t have us.
For ourselves too the only think more economically damaging than leaving would be to oscillate between leaving and joining.
We shot ourselves in the foot. We now have to accept that reality and the handicap we have given ourselves and make the best of a bad job.
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Post by vinny on Jun 24, 2024 15:57:43 GMT
Mostly agree, but we have not shot ourselves in the foot.
We have chosen to be independent, just like Canada is, just like Australia is.
Shooting ourselves in the foot would have meant becoming as Zimbabwe is.
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Post by dappy on Jun 24, 2024 16:18:42 GMT
Oh we have Vinny . Our levels of taxation will be higher and levels of public service lower as a result. But honestly is it worth relitigating the Brexit debate / not for me
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Jun 24, 2024 18:35:47 GMT
Your side lied like crazy last time and outspent leave. Both sides cheated. You telling more lies like that doesn't change the truth Vinny |
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Post by patman post on Jun 24, 2024 19:03:27 GMT
Mostly agree, but we have not shot ourselves in the foot. We have chosen to be independent, just like Canada is, just like Australia is. Shooting ourselves in the foot would have meant becoming as Zimbabwe is. Australia and Canada have vast natural resources, which the UK is desperate to get its hands on, but Australia and Canada don’t need much from the UK. The one thing they apparently share with the UK is a high cocaine consumption. For a while, the UK got adequate dentists, plumbers and builders — and GP appointments, reportedly, weren’t as scarce as hens’ teeth. But after the dog-whistle anti immigrant/foreigner feeling swung the vote, the UK population is now realising — too late — what it jettisoned. But they only have to suck it up for the next 20 years — then it’s all going to be OK. It’s a pity that many who wanted to regain their sovereignty won’t be around to enjoy the fruits of what they were missold… |
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Post by Zany on Jun 24, 2024 20:42:47 GMT
Mostly agree, but we have not shot ourselves in the foot. We have chosen to be independent, just like Canada is, just like Australia is. Shooting ourselves in the foot would have meant becoming as Zimbabwe is. Canada would love more trade with the states. Australia joined its own trade alliance and is 10,000 miles from the EU. We pissed off and then left a giant 25 miles away |
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Post by vinny on Jun 24, 2024 21:58:43 GMT
Mostly agree, but we have not shot ourselves in the foot. We have chosen to be independent, just like Canada is, just like Australia is. Shooting ourselves in the foot would have meant becoming as Zimbabwe is. Canada would love more trade with the states. Australia joined its own trade alliance and is 10,000 miles from the EU. We pissed off and then left a giant 25 miles away We left an unreformed political customs union whose membership cost was not only £9.5 billion quid a year after rebate, but absurd legislation, a common tariff policy, a common commercial policy, no rights to do free trade deals of our own despite being in the Commonwealth. It may suit xenophobic white supremacist morons, but I wasn't happy with the situation. |
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Post by Zany on Jun 25, 2024 7:36:02 GMT
Canada would love more trade with the states. Australia joined its own trade alliance and is 10,000 miles from the EU. We pissed off and then left a giant 25 miles away We left an unreformed political customs union whose membership cost was not only £9.5 billion quid a year after rebate, but absurd legislation, a common tariff policy, a common commercial policy, no rights to do free trade deals of our own despite being in the Commonwealth. It may suit xenophobic white supremacist morons, but I wasn't happy with the situation. The 9.5Bn seems like a drop in the ocean now though. And as has been repeated and endlessly forgotten by the Brexit team. We still have to pay for all those checks and paperwork, its just done by individual companies now. And do tell the fantastic trade deals we have done with India etc? Last I heard they weren't interested in anything we offered unless it included the right to come and live here. |
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Post by Zany on Jun 25, 2024 7:57:56 GMT
The reality is that without overwhelming political consensus -which doesn’t exist - it would be impossible to rejoin. They wouldn’t have us. For ourselves too the only think more economically damaging than leaving would be to oscillate between leaving and joining. We shot ourselves in the foot. We now have to accept that reality and the handicap we have given ourselves and make the best of a bad job. If the polls are anywhere near accurate, support for the Brexit decision is at 33%. If we forced the issue to a decision with another referendum I think a lot of those in the 'leave it alone' camp like yourself would instantly switch to re-join. I think Labour should seriously consider this once they are elected and have a handle on where the economy is. I think this could bring a far greater boost to economic growth than any other plan. Of course we would have to agree that bananas are bent and have a common policy on lorry tyre tread depths. Ahh, there's always a sacrifice to be made.  |
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Post by vinny on Jun 25, 2024 9:03:28 GMT
We left an unreformed political customs union whose membership cost was not only £9.5 billion quid a year after rebate, but absurd legislation, a common tariff policy, a common commercial policy, no rights to do free trade deals of our own despite being in the Commonwealth. It may suit xenophobic white supremacist morons, but I wasn't happy with the situation. The 9.5Bn seems like a drop in the ocean now though. And as has been repeated and endlessly forgotten by the Brexit team. We still have to pay for all those checks and paperwork, its just done by individual companies now. And do tell the fantastic trade deals we have done with India etc? Last I heard they weren't interested in anything we offered unless it included the right to come and live here. In case you haven't noticed, Brexit is sovereignty, independence, the ability to unilaterally do things. Paperwork doesn't cost much. Customs checks do not cost much. Normal free trade agreements don't cost much at all. Look at EFTA, it costs 23,271,000 Swiss Francs or 20.5 million pounds per year for the whole organisation providing free trade to four countries.
That's less than we were paying the EU, in a day.
And it has free movement.
The EU is a rip off.
It needs reform and despite David Cameron's lies, didn't get it, so we voted leave.
If it had been reformed, I would have considered voting to stay, but I would have had to have seen profound reform either with cuts to the cost of the EU budget and the scope of the organisation's powers, or the replacement of the Commission with an elected body we can hold accountable, and sack.
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Post by equivocal on Jun 25, 2024 9:22:15 GMT
The reality is that without overwhelming political consensus -which doesn’t exist - it would be impossible to rejoin. They wouldn’t have us. For ourselves too the only think more economically damaging than leaving would be to oscillate between leaving and joining. We shot ourselves in the foot. We now have to accept that reality and the handicap we have given ourselves and make the best of a bad job. If the polls are anywhere near accurate, support for the Brexit decision is at 33%. If we forced the issue to a decision with another referendum I think a lot of those in the 'leave it alone' camp like yourself would instantly switch to re-join. I think Labour should seriously consider this once they are elected and have a handle on where the economy is. I think this could bring a far greater boost to economic growth than any other plan. Of course we would have to agree that bananas are bent and have a common policy on lorry tyre tread depths. Ahh, there's always a sacrifice to be made. I voted remain and still believe we would have been better off staying in the union. However, the uncertainty pre and post Brexit has, in my opinion, been very damaging in terms of business investment and therefore GDP per capita growth. I think another period of uncertainty (referendum, deals, etc.) which would almost certainly result in another protracted period of under investment causing further damage from which we may not recover.
We are where we are and I think we need a sustained period of reasonable certainty to encourage badly needed investment in our battered economy.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Jun 25, 2024 10:03:32 GMT
If the polls are anywhere near accurate, support for the Brexit decision is at 33%. If we forced the issue to a decision with another referendum I think a lot of those in the 'leave it alone' camp like yourself would instantly switch to re-join. I think Labour should seriously consider this once they are elected and have a handle on where the economy is. I think this could bring a far greater boost to economic growth than any other plan. Of course we would have to agree that bananas are bent and have a common policy on lorry tyre tread depths. Ahh, there's always a sacrifice to be made. I voted remain and still believe we would have been better off staying in the union. However, the uncertainty pre and post Brexit has, in my opinion, been very damaging in terms of business investment and therefore GDP per capita growth. I think another period of uncertainty (referendum, deals, etc.) which would almost certainly result in another protracted period of under investment causing further damage from which we may not recover.
We are where we are and I think we need a sustained period of reasonable certainty to encourage badly needed investment in our battered economy.
Well said But we should still be learning the lessons and punishing the guilty leaders. Vinny's constant 'isn't it wonderful' and 'look what we saved you from' nonsense posts just show deep down he knows it was for the nation as a whole, a stupid mistake. |
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