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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 25, 2024 11:29:40 GMT
Paperwork doesn't cost much. Customs checks do not cost much. Yes, they have. Not just in terms of monetary costs, which have been well documented so I'm unsure why you're ignoring them, but also the cost on perishable goods in delay.
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Post by vinny on Jun 25, 2024 14:01:12 GMT
Many a non EU country doesn't have a problem. Why should it be the case that a £9.5 billion pound a year membership fee is needed just to have free trade?
Any issues, are down to our own government, not the fact that we voted to leave the EU.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 25, 2024 14:35:30 GMT
Many a non EU country doesn't have a problem. Why should it be the case that a £9.5 billion pound a year membership fee is needed just to have free trade? Any issues, are down to our own government, not the fact that we voted to leave the EU. Except that we have a free trade agreement, but there are still massive costs for paperwork and delays in imports and exports. And this is before we have the changes in visa waiver requirements...
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Post by patman post on Jun 25, 2024 14:45:43 GMT
Many a non EU country doesn't have a problem. Why should it be the case that a £9.5 billion pound a year membership fee is needed just to have free trade? Any issues, are down to our own government, not the fact that we voted to leave the EU. So how come our own government hasn't streamlined the rules and regulations so that the additional costs and time taken to clear UK customs are no greater than before...?
Lorry drivers could start rejecting jobs transporting goods from continental Europe to the UK unless delays are reduced and driver conditions improved at post-Brexit border posts, the biggest trade body for Dutch hauliers has warned.
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Post by vinny on Jun 25, 2024 14:46:58 GMT
Because our government is shit.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jun 25, 2024 15:32:39 GMT
Because our government is shit. Oh dear you think they're 'shit' just because they didn't deliver that competely delusional cake and eat dream it you fell for. It was never possible Vinny.
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Post by patman post on Jun 25, 2024 17:20:41 GMT
Because our government is shit. That I agree with — but it was this government's party that gave us the choice to leave, although it had told Scotland that remaining in the union would ensure its continued membership of the EU, and then had its members promise cheaper food, reduced immigration, and more money for the NHS if we voted Leave.
The current batch of Tories have provided crap administration after crap administration, polluted waterways, a run-down NHS, highest ever taxation, record immigration, and a rising cost of living. The one thing it hasn't given is the promised better times — which its adherents are now saying we'll have to wait 20 years for.
Let's get a new government, that's untethered from its parties past, and able to work for a cohesive and progressive UK...
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 25, 2024 18:26:43 GMT
Because our government is shit. I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. But what form of Brexit did people want? The ERG pushed the Tories into leaving the SM and the CU. Starting from that point it's hard to see how you can make it work. Even Boris had to give up NI, because he couldn't come up with anything better.
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Post by Zany on Jun 25, 2024 18:47:46 GMT
If the polls are anywhere near accurate, support for the Brexit decision is at 33%. If we forced the issue to a decision with another referendum I think a lot of those in the 'leave it alone' camp like yourself would instantly switch to re-join. I think Labour should seriously consider this once they are elected and have a handle on where the economy is. I think this could bring a far greater boost to economic growth than any other plan. Of course we would have to agree that bananas are bent and have a common policy on lorry tyre tread depths. Ahh, there's always a sacrifice to be made. I voted remain and still believe we would have been better off staying in the union. However, the uncertainty pre and post Brexit has, in my opinion, been very damaging in terms of business investment and therefore GDP per capita growth. I think another period of uncertainty (referendum, deals, etc.) which would almost certainly result in another protracted period of under investment causing further damage from which we may not recover.
We are where we are and I think we need a sustained period of reasonable certainty to encourage badly needed investment in our battered economy.
What time period is that measured over? Personally I think much uncertainty would disappear if we re-joined. Investors are more nervous of the UK's poor performance than they are the changes needed for us to re-join a stable growing economy.
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Post by equivocal on Jun 25, 2024 19:22:13 GMT
I voted remain and still believe we would have been better off staying in the union. However, the uncertainty pre and post Brexit has, in my opinion, been very damaging in terms of business investment and therefore GDP per capita growth. I think another period of uncertainty (referendum, deals, etc.) which would almost certainly result in another protracted period of under investment causing further damage from which we may not recover.
We are where we are and I think we need a sustained period of reasonable certainty to encourage badly needed investment in our battered economy.
What time period is that measured over? Personally I think much uncertainty would disappear if we re-joined. Investors are more nervous of the UK's poor performance than they are the changes needed for us to re-join a stable growing economy. I'd be very surprised if the diplomacy phase following a decision to attempt to rejoin would take much less than 10 years, probably longer if we were required to adopt the single currency. On the matter of a single currency, I'm not at all convinced the British public would maintain the current level of support for rejoining with monetary policy being ceded to the ECB.
I think you are probably right to say that if we did rejoin, it would generate more willing investors. It's more the idea of another probably quite long period of uncertainty that, following the last 10 years or so of uncertainty, makes the idea unfeasible. At least in the near future.
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Post by Zany on Jun 25, 2024 20:55:03 GMT
What time period is that measured over? Personally I think much uncertainty would disappear if we re-joined. Investors are more nervous of the UK's poor performance than they are the changes needed for us to re-join a stable growing economy. I'd be very surprised if the diplomacy phase following a decision to attempt to rejoin would take much less than 10 years, probably longer if we were required to adopt the single currency. On the matter of a single currency, I'm not at all convinced the British public would maintain the current level of support for rejoining with monetary policy being ceded to the ECB.
I think you are probably right to say that if we did rejoin, it would generate more willing investors. It's more the idea of another probably quite long period of uncertainty that, following the last 10 years or so of uncertainty, makes the idea unfeasible. At least in the near future.
you appear to be assuming a repeat of our leaving debacle. I would like to see all the negotiating done prior the a vote and ready to run. That's what business would like, that's how business would do it.
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Post by vinny on Jun 25, 2024 22:32:27 GMT
If so many remoaners hadn't bitched about if we leave we could have had a debate and a referendum about how we left. .
Cheers losers, what exactly did you do for democracy? Nothing.
But I'll say this, I'd rather be free and poor, than being fabulously wealthy, but enslaved like Putin's oligarchs are.
Independence is whatever we choose to do. Enslavement is being controlled.
I want democracy.
You can argue to abandon it and rejoin the EU, but, you'll lose.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 25, 2024 22:40:12 GMT
If so many remoaners hadn't bitched about if we leave we could have had a debate and a referendum about how we left. . Cheers losers, what exactly did you do for democracy? Nothing. But I'll say this, I'd rather be free and poor, than being fabulously wealthy, but enslaved like Putin's oligarchs are. Independence is whatever we choose to do. Enslavement is being controlled. I want democracy. You can argue to abandon it and rejoin the EU, but, you'll lose. That's such a superficial argument, you're better than that. Boris won an 80 seat majority, made them all sign a pledge to leave, and then expelled those who didn't agree. Blaming the shit of Brexit on Remainers is, well, a little dishonest.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jun 25, 2024 22:40:49 GMT
Anyone that compares being in the EU with living under Putin is in desperate need of a sense of perspective
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Post by vinny on Jun 26, 2024 6:03:04 GMT
Told you before, if the EU had been reformed, I'd have voted to stay. It wasn't.
They need to either replace the Commission with an elected body, or, repatriate powers back to elected governments and roll back the scale and cost of the EU's powers.
It is neither good value for money, or democratic. It imposes protectionist tariffs on member states.
The common agricultural policy is crap, the common fisheries policy is crap, and free movement is so fatally flawed it has killed people.
It needs safeguards, instead it offers economic Darwinism.
It doesn't work. It isn't a democracy, it is dangerous.
It needs reforms that would never have happened if we'd stayed.
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