Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 5, 2024 6:41:00 GMT
No someone pointed out that they thought they were almost certainly wrong Ok so once someone has told him that continuing to say it isn't a lie but it's not honest. So does dishonest work rather than calling him a liar? Just who are you supposing has told him it's dishonest? FullFact haven't
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 5, 2024 6:43:32 GMT
No someone pointed out that they thought they were almost certainly wrong Full fact pointed out that they thought they were almost certainly wrong. And asked for their calculations. Ooh yes that bit. So what you have is something that on several levels is multiply abstracted from the fundamentallly dishoenst act of deliberately telling something you know to be false - ie a lie. And the actual point at hand is there are huge moral differences between Starmer and Farage
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Post by AvonCalling on Aug 5, 2024 10:24:10 GMT
Ok so once someone has told him that continuing to say it isn't a lie but it's not honest. So does dishonest work rather than calling him a liar? Just who are you supposing has told him it's a lie? FullFact haven't You may need to reread what I posted because I didn't post what you are saying.
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Post by AvonCalling on Aug 5, 2024 10:25:42 GMT
Full fact pointed out that they thought they were almost certainly wrong. And asked for their calculations. Ooh yes that bit. So what you have is something that on several levels is multiply abstracted from the fundamentallly dishoenst act of deliberately telling something you know to be false - ie a lie. And the actual point at hand is there are huge moral differences between Starmer and Farage NO that is what you consider to be the point at hand. The reality is that you don't get to say what the point at hand is unless you caveat it as your opinion.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 5, 2024 11:37:24 GMT
So what you have is something that on several levels is multiply abstracted from the fundamentallly dishoenst act of deliberately telling something you know to be false - ie a lie. And the actual point at hand is there are huge moral differences between Starmer and Farage NO that is what you consider to be the point at hand. The reality is that you don't get to say what the point at hand is unless you caveat it as your opinion. So we have 4 pages of posts all provoked by my Aug 3, 2024 at 4:12pm assertion that Farage tells lies, Starmer doesn't comment and you say that's not the point at hand? Really?
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 5, 2024 11:38:11 GMT
Just who are you supposing has told him it's a lie? FullFact haven't You may need to reread what I posted because I didn't post what you are saying. Apologies I did read it too quickly, will edit my post Update: it now says 'Just who are you supposing has told him it's dishonest? FullFact haven't'
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Post by AvonCalling on Aug 5, 2024 12:21:19 GMT
NO that is what you consider to be the point at hand. The reality is that you don't get to say what the point at hand is unless you caveat it as your opinion. So we have 4 pages of posts all provoked by my Aug 3, 2024 at 4:12pm assertion that Farage tells lies, Starmer doesn't comment and you say that's not the point at hand? Really? As I am a participant in this thread and I am interested establishing the veracity of both parties. So slightly different aims. The fact that this has gone in for this long is mainly a consequence of pedantry as will be covered in my next response to you.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 5, 2024 12:22:43 GMT
So are you saying there is no moral difference between deliberately telling untruths and maybe accidentally telling something that might well happen to be untrue?
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Post by AvonCalling on Aug 5, 2024 12:25:33 GMT
You may need to reread what I posted because I didn't post what you are saying. Apologies I did read it too quickly, will edit my post Update: it now says 'Just who are you supposing has told him it's dishonest? FullFact haven't'y apologies, someone told him that they thought they were almost certainly wrong yet he continued to use them which for me speaks to how honest I consider him to be. So if you think differently tell me what you would call that type of behaviour as per the Oxford English Dictionary.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 5, 2024 12:30:18 GMT
He did not continue to use them. FullFact made it clear he said it only once but that others had repeated it
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Post by Zany on Aug 5, 2024 18:58:08 GMT
So are you saying there is no moral difference between deliberately telling untruths and maybe accidentally telling something that might well happen to be untrue? You're right in a way Steve. In level of lies Starmer is not in the competition. The conversation got stuck around the usual pedantry on the definition of a lie.
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borgr0
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Post by borgr0 on Aug 15, 2024 4:28:57 GMT
Is there any difference between Labour and Farage these days? ^^^^^ Can't tell the difference between insanely right wing populist Labour and the goons running amuck doing all kinds of crazy things, how many in Labour are islamophobes after all? A couple of things. Firstly I either just saw on Yougov that Farage is the most popular politican in the UK. That or I am going crazy which also may be true. Secondly Garage would like to reduce immigration but I doubt the insanely right wing labour have plans to much about immigration any time soon It looks like his favorability is in freefall now, thankfully - link
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borgr0
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Post by borgr0 on Aug 15, 2024 4:31:13 GMT
In level of lies Starmer is not in the competition. Few politicians are with Farage, nonetheless, amazing to watch Lab refusing to correct the record after telling open porkies and tripling down on them
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