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Post by vinny on Jun 18, 2024 13:55:04 GMT
That's due to energy prices, not Brexit. ourworld.unu.edu/en/uk-to-close-all-coal-power-plants-in-switch-to-gas-and-nuclearWe closed the coal mines and the coal fired power stations before replacement infrastructure was online powering the grid, we've reduced electricity generation, and encouraged the take-up of electric cars. Everyone's bills have gone up big time. For ages, we had a shortage of truckers (due to shit pay and shit working conditions in that trade). Without enough drivers, the cost of freight went up. We needed to build new nuclear power stations decades ago, but never did. Because of high electricity and fuel prices our population per capita faces more expensive bills, even with regards to UK made produce. That's not Brexit, that's the Tories. Want rid of the Tories? Vote against them. It's very easy to blame Brexit, but all Brexit was, is a vote to be independent. It's the government ultimately in charge of success or failure. They have tariffs on things we don't make or grow. They have control of VAT, which we could, if we wanted, abolish. Members of the EU can't do that, they're stuck with EU VAT law, and a minimum rate of 15%. Government are in charge of regulation and regulatory fees. www.bankofengland.co.uk/prudential-regulation/publication/2023/april/regulated-fees-and-levies-rates-proposals-2023-24We could re-model our tax system entirely and reform it from the ground up, but we haven't. Blame government, not the electorate who simply wanted independence and independent sovereign powers. And it's the same with farming. Government are ultimately responsible for agricultural policy. They are responsible for whether subsidies occur, and could means test.
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Post by equivocal on Jun 18, 2024 16:09:52 GMT
How about per capita growth, just to eliminate those extra 2.5 million people who have joined us since Brexit stopped the immigration. And of course the value of the pound (Which does matter as we are a net importer.) Those figures don't look right compared to the ONS figures.
Do you have a link?
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Post by Zany on Jun 18, 2024 18:18:02 GMT
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Post by equivocal on Jun 18, 2024 18:36:57 GMT
Thanks. They appear to have updated the figures - doesn't change the point, but the difference is less stark.
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Post by Zany on Jun 18, 2024 18:45:35 GMT
Thanks. They appear to have updated the figures - doesn't change the point, but the difference is less stark.
Ta.
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Post by vinny on Jun 18, 2024 18:47:05 GMT
Other factors aren't considered.
Had we stayed, our electricity generation would have stayed shit, our trucking industry would have continued to have a shortage of staff and high logistics costs passed on to customers.
Our steel industry would still be dependent on imported coal.
Many problems would exist without the benefit of sovereignty to independently addresses the problems.
We addressed the issue of the trucking industry and we're training more drivers. We've got rid of unnecessary trailer tests for ordinary motorists in order to help with this.
The real problems now are that the Tories are crap, not that we're out of the EU. Norway aren't in the EU, their GDP per capita is great. And their FTA with the EU isn't as good as ours.
We need more power stations than we have to bring down energy costs.
We need to slash VAT. Blame the Tories.
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Post by Zany on Jun 18, 2024 19:35:28 GMT
Other factors aren't considered. Had we stayed, our electricity generation would have stayed shit, our trucking industry would have continued to have a shortage of staff and high logistics costs passed on to customers. Our steel industry would still be dependent on imported coal. Many problems would exist without the benefit of sovereignty to independently addresses the problems. We addressed the issue of the trucking industry and we're training more drivers. We've got rid of unnecessary trailer tests for ordinary motorists in order to help with this. The real problems now are that the Tories are crap, not that we're out of the EU. Norway aren't in the EU, their GDP per capita is great. And their FTA with the EU isn't as good as ours. We need more power stations than we have to bring down energy costs. We need to slash VAT. Blame the Tories. Just one question. what has our electricity generation got to do with EU membership.
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Post by vinny on Jun 18, 2024 19:51:57 GMT
In 2015 Amber Rudd's enactment of the EU coal phaseout policy began. BUT insufficient alternative generation of electricity went hand in hand with the phaseout which started properly in 2016.
That pushed electricity costs for domestic customers and businesses up hitting profits and reducing GDP.
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Post by Zany on Jun 18, 2024 20:09:29 GMT
In 2015 Amber Rudd's enactment of the EU coal phaseout policy began. BUT insufficient alternative generation of electricity went hand in hand with the phaseout which started properly in 2016. That pushed electricity costs for domestic customers and businesses up hitting profits and reducing GDP. You mean we phased out coal because of global warming. The phase out that Germany will complete in 2030. Oh yes that pressure from the EU. Actually I'm hugely proud of the UK's record on climate change and I don't need to credit the EU for it. Incidentally electricity prices barely fluctuated until 2021. www.statista.com/statistics/589765/average-electricity-prices-uk/
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Post by vinny on Jun 18, 2024 22:07:01 GMT
But instead of coal we burn biomass imported from the USA and Canada, cut down with petrol powered chainsaws, transported on diesel powered trucks to fossil fuel powered lumber mills, pelletised, transported on more diesel trucks to bunker oil powered freighters, offloaded onto diesel powered trains and called green!
The carbon footprint is even worse!
If we had kept coal powered power stations open a bit longer, whilst we built adequate replacement infrastructure, the cost to consumers would have been a lot less, and the carbon footprint would have been a lot less too.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jun 18, 2024 23:28:38 GMT
The ONS measures in £ which we devalued because of Brexit so gives a false impression.. Zany quotes the OECD which uses internationally valid comparisons and the conclusion is clear and devastating for Brexiters - you didn't qute destroy the UK economy but you had a good try and gave it enduring damage that shows no signs of ever mending. .
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Post by Steve on Jun 18, 2024 23:33:18 GMT
And the prospects are poor as Brexit harms investment www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cl44edly2ryo'Investment levels in the UK remain among the worst of the world's richest nations and unless they improve it is hard to see how the economy will grow, a think tank has said. The Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) said total investment in the UK is "significantly" behind the nearest competitor in the G7 group of wealthy nations.'Serious money doesn't do investing in emotional adventures it looks at investing where there are resources and easy access to big markets. Brexit has so harmed the latter.
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Post by vinny on Jun 19, 2024 5:54:04 GMT
You're ignoring all other factors. Especially the point about energy and logistics costs. And fuel prices are very high too. This doesn't just impact domestic customers but businesses as well.
More needs doing to cut fuel costs. With cheaper energy and fuel, doing business here will be better.
Also tax is a factor. This idea that being out of the EU means disaster is nonsense. Norway isn't in the EU, Switzerland isn't, most of the developed world isn't.
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Post by Zany on Jun 19, 2024 6:17:31 GMT
But instead of coal we burn biomass imported from the USA and Canada, cut down with petrol powered chainsaws, transported on diesel powered trucks to fossil fuel powered lumber mills, pelletised, transported on more diesel trucks to bunker oil powered freighters, offloaded onto diesel powered trains and called green! The carbon footprint is even worse! If we had kept coal powered power stations open a bit longer, whilst we built adequate replacement infrastructure, the cost to consumers would have been a lot less, and the carbon footprint would have been a lot less too. Oh come on Vinny. We use wind and solar backed up by natural gas. And burning coal imported from Argentina because ours was so expensive to extract was not clean.
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Post by Zany on Jun 19, 2024 6:19:45 GMT
You're ignoring all other factors. Especially the point about energy and logistics costs. And fuel prices are very high too. This doesn't just impact domestic customers but businesses as well. More needs doing to cut fuel costs. With cheaper energy and fuel, doing business here will be better. Also tax is a factor. This idea that being out of the EU means disaster is nonsense. Norway isn't in the EU, Switzerland isn't, most of the developed world isn't. Have you check fuel prices and tax among our competitors Vinny?
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