Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 22, 2024 9:14:23 GMT
Not that hackneyed lie again. The pound was not overvalued, it was doing well reflecting the strength of our services dominated economy with free and friction free access to the worlds biggest market. And then Cameron committed to that referendum and the slide began because those with real money knew there was a real chance you and yours would get their pyrrhic victory.
Anyone believing that devaluation is good is desperately naive. As a service dominated economy we have to import so much and the prices went up but wages couldn't. Within 18 months of that referendum result real value wages had fallen 3%. And some leavers are still proud of the harm they did.
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Post by Zany on May 22, 2024 10:30:16 GMT
Exports to the EU did increase, but you haven't mentioned why. The pound, which had been overvalued prior to the referendum "crashed", in the words of remainers at the time. That made our exports cheaper. We still have that competitive edge now. Prior to the referendum the pound was too strong, and our manufacturing was in decline. In 2015 we exported £223.3 billion to the EU. Pre referendum trade was poor. We weren't competitive until after the leave vote. Had we voted to stay, we'd have suffered from an overvalued pound and industrial decline and our exports to the EU would have been far poorer than we now enjoy. So we are poorer making our exports cheaper? |
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Post by Zany on May 22, 2024 10:47:41 GMT
Not that hackneyed lie again. The pound was not overvalued, it was doing well reflecting the strength of our services dominated economy with free and friction free access to the worlds biggest market. And then Cameron committed to that referendum and the slide began because those with real money knew there was a real chance you and yours would get their pyrrhic victory. Anyone believing that devaluation is good is desperately naive. As a service dominated economy we have to import so much and the prices went up but wages couldn't. Within 18 months of that referendum result real value wages had fallen 3%. And some leavers are still proud of the harm they did. More expensive imports could have encouraged more manufacture in the UK, but our current investment style in the UK is so punitive and short term that is discourages business starting here. Everyone wants an exit in 5 years with enormous gains or interest. (Partly because they can get that in house building) We need federal funding programs with longer term views to get this country back to being competitive. |
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Post by vinny on May 22, 2024 11:01:00 GMT
Exports to the EU did increase, but you haven't mentioned why. The pound, which had been overvalued prior to the referendum "crashed", in the words of remainers at the time. That made our exports cheaper. We still have that competitive edge now. Prior to the referendum the pound was too strong, and our manufacturing was in decline. In 2015 we exported £223.3 billion to the EU. Pre referendum trade was poor. We weren't competitive until after the leave vote. Had we voted to stay, we'd have suffered from an overvalued pound and industrial decline and our exports to the EU would have been far poorer than we now enjoy. So we are poorer making our exports cheaper? No, we are richer, through selling more. |
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Post by vinny on May 22, 2024 11:05:16 GMT
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 22, 2024 19:38:46 GMT
Poor form Vinny  . Posting links without quoting the words in them you rely on isn't debate, it's obfuscation especially when one is hidden behind a pay wall. But even you couldn't hide the dates, those articles are so 2014 when the £ was $1.72. The 15+% fall from $1.50+ to mid dollar twenty doldrums is all your doing with that massive money print needed to stop the emergency disaster budget Osborne predicted. Oh and by the way cutting the currency does not increase exports in real world values, it just increases them in devalued currency numbers but the immediate effect is to reduce the real value of exports. Those food, enrgy and other essential imports very much cost more and immediately. Osborne said we'd be ~£,4000 per household worse off in ten years, you delivered it in months. Now do you understand what 'pyrrhic' means? |
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Post by vinny on May 23, 2024 8:40:01 GMT
The fall in the value of the pound ended the fall in exported trade with the EU.
And evidently it was a much needed fall given the size of the boost it provided. Before we'd even left unemployment hit the lowest level since 1975.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 23, 2024 12:13:20 GMT
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Post by vinny on May 23, 2024 16:47:44 GMT
The percentage of trade we did with the EU fell between 2000 and 2016 only growing again after the referendum.
Funny to see post referendum trade stats from the withdrawal period touted as if membership had been successful, and all the factories which closed prior to the referendum being treated as unimportant.
Entire regions of our country suffered.
Unemployment rose.
Poverty rose.
Bad, is not adequate. And what we had was bad.
We need to reorganise our economy so that we're more diverse and more resilient than a mere service economy. There's more to our country than London. We need an economy which works for everyone.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 23, 2024 16:59:38 GMT
Percentage of export trade is NOT value of export trade.
Feel free to show us all those factories that closed pre Brexit that have reopened since.
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Post by vinny on May 24, 2024 7:22:41 GMT
Value of trade with it now is far greater than pre referendum, adjusting for inflation so stop complaining.
Value of trade then, was declining, as factories closed.
Can't run the entire economy on services, there needs to be a bit of variety in our economic output. We were stagnating.
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Post by totheleft on May 24, 2024 8:47:58 GMT
Not surprised nothing good has come out Of Brexit Don't lie to yourself. Loads of good has come from Brexit. Unemployment fell to the lowest level since the 1970's, industrial activity has grown, exports have grown. Compensating for inflation, our exports to the EU are still worth a massive lot more now than they were when we were in. If we'd stayed in, we'd be exporting £295.2 billion to the EU instead of the £354.65 billion we exported last year. Inflation adjusted figures from when we were in compared to the actual exports we did last year. Our economy was £59.45bn better off last year than it would have been if we'd stayed in. Nope nope nope |
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Post by vinny on May 24, 2024 9:25:09 GMT
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Post by Zany on May 24, 2024 9:41:59 GMT
Or in Euro's 2015 €286bn 2023 €302Bn €16Bn difference and then allow for inflation over those 8 years. € to pound 2015 £0.78p € to £ 2023 £1.17 |
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Post by vinny on May 24, 2024 9:56:37 GMT
The pound was overvalued in 2015 harming our exports.
The Bank of England inflation calculator takes everything into consideration.
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