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Post by Zany on Sept 22, 2024 18:54:35 GMT
If you think Orac is a bit of a prat, try to ignore him. I think it would be a great shame if you chose to leave. To be fair to Orac he does seem to keep a strict Chinese wall between his site ownership and his site posting. Doesn’t feel like this has been a good weekend for a forum already struggling for viability. I hope it gets through the blow.In my opinion the rot began with Wapentake being made to feel unwelcome and attacked for not being as clear as he might have been but we c an all be guilty of that. Admins making personal attacks is not helpful either. And our mod being made to feel that he is not wanted in the role is also unhelpful. All these things have happened in the last week, and it is leading me to question my continuation on this forum, though with no further animosity directed at me yet I have still been posting today. It has definitely been a bad week for the forum. The unique selling point of this forum is that it is different from and better than all the others. It has not seemed to be this week. Not to mention Wapentake has another home anyway. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on Sept 22, 2024 19:03:31 GMT
No Communism is common ownership of everything, no private possesions just temporary custodianship where that suits the collective need. It doesn't work. Sweden is a socialist country. There isn't state ownership of the means of production. . . . Which if you remember, is exactly what I was saying. Glad after all the diversion you finally agree with me. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 19:06:02 GMT
In my opinion the rot began with Wapentake being made to feel unwelcome and attacked for not being as clear as he might have been but we c an all be guilty of that. Admins making personal attacks is not helpful either. And our mod being made to feel that he is not wanted in the role is also unhelpful. All these things have happened in the last week, and it is leading me to question my continuation on this forum, though with no further animosity directed at me yet I have still been posting today. It has definitely been a bad week for the forum. The unique selling point of this forum is that it is different from and better than all the others. It has not seemed to be this week. Not to mention Wapentake has another home anyway. Why should that matter? Or make him any less welcome here? The way things are going I might well be returning to his other home and make it mine as well. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Sept 22, 2024 19:07:07 GMT
No Communism is common ownership of everything, no private possesions just temporary custodianship where that suits the collective need. It doesn't work. . . . Communism doesn't work? How do you know? As stated previously, communism can only work under certain conditions. Nobody has tried to establish it under those conditions, as far as I'm aware. Several regimes have tried to suppose they were communist but they all had the same flaws: (a) that the ruling elite didn't think it applied to them and (b) individuals lost all incentive to perform so the ruling elite resulted to threats. There's a reason why 'Cuba without the sun' is a critical comment. |
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Post by Zany on Sept 22, 2024 19:13:43 GMT
Not to mention Wapentake has another home anyway. Why should that matter? Or make him any less welcome here? The way things are going I might well be returning to his other home and make it mine as well. You misunderstand. I didn't mean he was less welcome. He was very welcome and I told him so after the dreaded green writing. I meant he was happy to return home which made leaving here easier. If you leave that is also a free choice. i assume it will depend on who takes over modding here (if anyone) and how "relaxed" that modding is. |
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Post by Zany on Sept 22, 2024 19:17:58 GMT
I do find it ironically amusing that current members here threatening to leave if I stop modding has not been mentioned at all by Saint and his desire to keep some new ones.
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Post by Saint on Sept 22, 2024 19:26:12 GMT
. . . Communism doesn't work? How do you know? As stated previously, communism can only work under certain conditions. Nobody has tried to establish it under those conditions, as far as I'm aware. Several regimes have tried to suppose they were communist but they all had the same flaws: (a) that the ruling elite didn't think it applied to them and (b) individuals lost all incentive to perform so the ruling elite resulted to threats. There's a reason why 'Cuba without the sun' is a critical comment. Yes, several regimes have presumed to institute communism. Much of what I know about Marx comes from what I read in a small book about him relatively recently. According to the author (whose name I've temporarily forgotten), no state has ever claimed to be communist. They have claimed to be socialist. I don't know if that is true, but it makes sense, since Marx said that a socialist state is a necessary gateway to communism itself. Now, of course, there are parties like the Chinese communist party. But they can be communists in the sense that they understand that a socialist state must precede a communist state. I totally agree that the ruling class in these so-called 'developing' communist states have been corrupt and self-serving. But that goes back to Marx's requirements for a successful communist state: a long and established history of democracy. As far as I'm aware, that hasn't been present. Orwell was very alive to your criticisms. As you know, he made exactly the same criticisms in Animal Farm. He was a dedicated communist himself. He didn't count Stalin's Russia as a communist state. He said that he had only ever seen one real communist community: that was while he was in Barcelona during the Spanish civil war. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 22, 2024 19:28:01 GMT
I do find it ironically amusing that current members here threatening to leave if I stop modding has not been mentioned at all by Saint and his desire to keep some new ones. The only person I know of to have said he may leave if you stop modding is Mr. Benn. If you go through the threads in the General Discussion forum you will find that not only have I mentioned it, I've actually exchanged posts with him on the subject. |
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Post by Zany on Sept 22, 2024 19:36:19 GMT
I do find it ironically amusing that current members here threatening to leave if I stop modding has not been mentioned at all by Saint and his desire to keep some new ones. The only person I know of to have said he may leave if you stop modding is Mr. Benn. If you go through the threads in the General Discussion forum you will find that not only have I mentioned it, I've actually exchanged posts with him on the subject. But not in terms of his reason for leaving or mine for that matter, Or Steve who has also said your forum is not the one he wants. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 19:47:42 GMT
The only person I know of to have said he may leave if you stop modding is Mr. Benn. If you go through the threads in the General Discussion forum you will find that not only have I mentioned it, I've actually exchanged posts with him on the subject. But not in terms of his reason for leaving or mine for that matter, Or Steve who has also said your forum is not the one he wants. My reasons for contemplating leaving are partly the fact that Wapentake - whom I regard as a friend in spite of frequent political differences - felt the need to leave, the departure of Zany as a mod and the part apparently being played by some in backstabbing both him and Wapentake, and the personal abuse I recently experienced from the Admin himself. So it is not just the Zany situation. I have become very disenchanted with this place. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 22, 2024 19:49:51 GMT
The only person I know of to have said he may leave if you stop modding is Mr. Benn. If you go through the threads in the General Discussion forum you will find that not only have I mentioned it, I've actually exchanged posts with him on the subject. But not in terms of his reason for leaving or mine for that matter, Or Steve who has also said your forum is not the one he wants. If you're leaving, please just go. It's genuinely regrettable, but we'll muddle on without you. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 22, 2024 19:53:13 GMT
But not in terms of his reason for leaving or mine for that matter, Or Steve who has also said your forum is not the one he wants. My reasons for contemplating leaving are partly the fact that Wapentake - whom I regard as a friend in spite of frequent political differences - felt the need to leave, the departure of Zany as a mod and the part apparently being played by some in backstabbing both him and Wapentake, and the personal abuse I recently experienced from the Admin himself. So it is not just the Zany situation. I have become very disenchanted with this place. I don't know if you include me among those who have backstabbed Zany. I hope not. In the event that you do, I can only say that I have been very upfront about my views on this from the beginning. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 19:57:04 GMT
My reasons for contemplating leaving are partly the fact that Wapentake - whom I regard as a friend in spite of frequent political differences - felt the need to leave, the departure of Zany as a mod and the part apparently being played by some in backstabbing both him and Wapentake, and the personal abuse I recently experienced from the Admin himself. So it is not just the Zany situation. I have become very disenchanted with this place. I don't know if you include me among those who have backstabbed Zany. I hope not. In the event that you do, I can only say that I have been very upfront about my views on this from the beginning. It was not you I had in mind..... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 20:01:31 GMT
But not in terms of his reason for leaving or mine for that matter, Or Steve who has also said your forum is not the one he wants. If you're leaving, please just go. It's genuinely regrettable, but we'll muddle on without you. I know I am emotionally and psychologically volatile and prone to flouncing off, but Zany is one of the most stable, thoughtful and intelligent people around here and has more success than most in making me reconsider and rethink some of my views from time to time. This forum does not have a huge membership. It cannot afford to lose people of his calibre so flippantly. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 22, 2024 20:04:36 GMT
If you're leaving, please just go. It's genuinely regrettable, but we'll muddle on without you. I know I am emotionally and psychologically volatile and prone to flouncing off, but Zany is one of the most stable, thoughtful and intelligent people around here and has more success than most in making me reconsider and rethink some of my views from time to time. This forum does not have a huge membership. It cannot afford to lose people of his calibre so flippantly. I'm not being flippant. I have encouraged him not only to remain a member, but also to stay on in his role as moderator. However, nothing is to be gained from a drawn out argument. It is to be regretted that he is considering exiting, but “If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly” |
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