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Post by Zany on Sept 22, 2024 13:19:08 GMT
Zany is definitely not a communist, at most he is a partial socialist confined by the realities of a capitalist system.
I wonder if Oracs passing comment was more about my attempts at being to fair here on this forum.
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Post by equivocal on Sept 22, 2024 13:21:24 GMT
There is no 'what communism actually is'. Nobody has caught a live one in the wild. It's a bit like asking what heaven actually is. There is a definition and people have opinions on the topic, but that's about it. Well your interpretation of what it is seems to encompass anything to the left of the Daily Mail, and seems rather like reds under the beds McCarthyism to me. Some sort of clarification from you might have proven me wrong but instead only insults. If a single paragraph definition of what you personally regard communism to be is too much to ask, then could you at least explain which aspects of communism you think Zany is prone to advertising? Because I have not seem him advertising anything remotely communist. A little less inequality perhaps. A fairer deal for the poor for sure, but definitely within the framework of the capitalist system. Dictatorship of the proletariat it is not. Nor workers of the world unite. Nor class war against the ruling classes and the bourgeoisie. In fact he is probably a member of the latter. Occasional mild leanings in the direction of democratic socialism is the most he can reasonably be accused of advertising and even that is a stretch. But I guess to a reds under the bed McCarthyite, that is all it takes to be a communist, lol What you don't know is that when Zany gets home, the business clothing is disregarded and the combat jacket and beret donned, Thereafter he becomes Citizen Zany and continues his day managing the activities of the Cambridge Popular Front. |
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Post by Zany on Sept 22, 2024 13:26:01 GMT
Well your interpretation of what it is seems to encompass anything to the left of the Daily Mail, and seems rather like reds under the beds McCarthyism to me. Some sort of clarification from you might have proven me wrong but instead only insults. If a single paragraph definition of what you personally regard communism to be is too much to ask, then could you at least explain which aspects of communism you think Zany is prone to advertising? Because I have not seem him advertising anything remotely communist. A little less inequality perhaps. A fairer deal for the poor for sure, but definitely within the framework of the capitalist system. Dictatorship of the proletariat it is not. Nor workers of the world unite. Nor class war against the ruling classes and the bourgeoisie. In fact he is probably a member of the latter. Occasional mild leanings in the direction of democratic socialism is the most he can reasonably be accused of advertising and even that is a stretch. But I guess to a reds under the bed McCarthyite, that is all it takes to be a communist, lol What you don't know is that when Zany gets home, the business clothing is disregarded and the combat jacket and beret donned, Thereafter he becomes Citizen Zany and continues his day managing the activities of the Cambridge Popular Front. You promised not to tell !! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 13:51:01 GMT
Well your interpretation of what it is seems to encompass anything to the left of the Daily Mail, and seems rather like reds under the beds McCarthyism to me. Some sort of clarification from you might have proven me wrong but instead only insults. If a single paragraph definition of what you personally regard communism to be is too much to ask, then could you at least explain which aspects of communism you think Zany is prone to advertising? Because I have not seem him advertising anything remotely communist. A little less inequality perhaps. A fairer deal for the poor for sure, but definitely within the framework of the capitalist system. Dictatorship of the proletariat it is not. Nor workers of the world unite. Nor class war against the ruling classes and the bourgeoisie. In fact he is probably a member of the latter. Occasional mild leanings in the direction of democratic socialism is the most he can reasonably be accused of advertising and even that is a stretch. But I guess to a reds under the bed McCarthyite, that is all it takes to be a communist, lol What you don't know is that when Zany gets home, the business clothing is disregarded and the combat jacket and beret donned, Thereafter he becomes Citizen Zany and continues his day managing the activities of the Cambridge Popular Front. And I have a poster of Che Guevarra on my wall, and another of Chairman Mao, with a copy of Das Kapital in my back pocket. When not working for Tesco I am having furtive conversations in backrooms with my fellow communist revolutionaries, such as Steve and Monte. I regularly advertise world communism by calling for a fairer deal for tenants and the working poor and stating boldly that inequality is too damagingly great. You can't get more communist than that. The fact that I was once a member of a political party to the left Genghis Khan is surely damning. MI5 must have a file on dangerous communists like me. On the other hand, believing that Liz Truss was brought down by the global elite, wealthy financiers and bankers, the liberal woke establishment, City traders, and other well known communists makes total sense, naturally. |
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Post by equivocal on Sept 22, 2024 13:55:18 GMT
What you don't know is that when Zany gets home, the business clothing is disregarded and the combat jacket and beret donned, Thereafter he becomes Citizen Zany and continues his day managing the activities of the Cambridge Popular Front. And I have a poster of Che Guevarra on my wall, and another of Chairman Mao, with a copy of Das Kapital in my back pocket. When not working for Tesco I am having furtive conversations in backrooms with my fellow communist revolutionaries, such as Steve and Monte. I regularly advertise world communism by calling for a fairer deal for tenants and the working poor and stating boldly that inequality is too damagingly great. You can't get more communist than that. The fact that I was once a member of a political party to the left Genghis Khan is surely damning. MI5 must have a file on dangerous communists like me. On the other hand, believing that Liz Truss was brought down by the global elite, wealthy financiers and bankers, the liberal woke establishment, City traders, and other well known communists makes total sense, naturally. That's all very well, but I bet you're not barred from having access to anything sharp when painting sunflowers.... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 13:59:20 GMT
And I have a poster of Che Guevarra on my wall, and another of Chairman Mao, with a copy of Das Kapital in my back pocket. When not working for Tesco I am having furtive conversations in backrooms with my fellow communist revolutionaries, such as Steve and Monte. I regularly advertise world communism by calling for a fairer deal for tenants and the working poor and stating boldly that inequality is too damagingly great. You can't get more communist than that. The fact that I was once a member of a political party to the left Genghis Khan is surely damning. MI5 must have a file on dangerous communists like me. On the other hand, believing that Liz Truss was brought down by the global elite, wealthy financiers and bankers, the liberal woke establishment, City traders, and other well known communists makes total sense, naturally. That's all very well, but I bet you're not barred from having access to anything sharp when painting sunflowers.... I don't actually paint. I spend my free time watching relevant social commentary like Citizen Smith. His Tooting Liberation Front is an inspiration to all true communists |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 14:15:33 GMT
It is very wrong to conflate the very different socialism and communism. The more demented and dishonest USA politicians do it regularly. Just to be clear, I'm not equating the two. But Marx saw socialism as the gateway to communism. Well that has rarely if ever proven to be the case. Democratic socialists gain office here and there from time to time, but they tend to get voted out again sooner or later b y a swing back to the right. There is no communist utopia/dystopia down the road signposting democratic socialism. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 22, 2024 14:17:34 GMT
Just to be clear, I'm not equating the two. But Marx saw socialism as the gateway to communism. Well that has rarely if ever proven to be the case. Democratic socialists gain office here and there from time to time, but they tend to get voted out again sooner or later b y a swing back to the right. There is no communist utopia/dystopia down the road signposting democratic socialism. I don't know. I think the general trend is always towards increased rights for workers, tenants, etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2024 14:35:00 GMT
Well that has rarely if ever proven to be the case. Democratic socialists gain office here and there from time to time, but they tend to get voted out again sooner or later b y a swing back to the right. There is no communist utopia/dystopia down the road signposting democratic socialism. I don't know. I think the general trend is always towards increased rights for workers, tenants, etc. It hasn't been in the last 40 years in this country, certainly not for tenants. |
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Post by Steve on Sept 22, 2024 14:36:16 GMT
It is very wrong to conflate the very different socialism and communism. The more demented and dishonest USA politicians do it regularly. Just to be clear, I'm not equating the two. But Marx saw socialism as the gateway to communism. And Marx started by perverting the definition of socialism, a perversion that many still use. It's not about ownership of all the means of production, it's about regulating such for the good of all and not just a few. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 22, 2024 14:38:15 GMT
Just to be clear, I'm not equating the two. But Marx saw socialism as the gateway to communism. And Marx started by perverting the definition of socialism, a perversion that many still use. It's not about ownership of all the means of production, it's about regulating such for the good of all and not just a few. Where does Marx say that socialism is proletariat ownership of the means of production? That's new to me. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Sept 22, 2024 14:58:34 GMT
And Marx started by perverting the definition of socialism, a perversion that many still use. It's not about ownership of all the means of production, it's about regulating such for the good of all and not just a few. Where does Marx say that socialism is proletariat ownership of the means of production? That's new to me. I didn't say proletariat. Not a term that aids debate. Anyway can't give you a direct reference but it was around the time of his interventions into socialist debate that the 'ownership of means of production' by the community came into the fore, eventually leading to that thankfully long dumped idiot Clause 4 that led the Labour party into a dead end. |
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Post by Saint on Sept 22, 2024 14:59:57 GMT
Where does Marx say that socialism is proletariat ownership of the means of production? That's new to me. I didn't say proletariat. Not a term that aids debate. Anyway can't give you a direct reference but it was around the time of his interventions into socialist debate that the 'ownership of means of production' by the community came into the fore, eventually leading to that thankfully long dumped idiot Clause 4 that led the Labour party into a dead end. Where did Marx say that socialism and non-private ownership of the means of production go hand in hand? I've never heard of that. |
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Post by Zany on Sept 22, 2024 15:09:15 GMT
What you don't know is that when Zany gets home, the business clothing is disregarded and the combat jacket and beret donned, Thereafter he becomes Citizen Zany and continues his day managing the activities of the Cambridge Popular Front. And I have a poster of Che Guevarra on my wall, and another of Chairman Mao, with a copy of Das Kapital in my back pocket. When not working for Tesco I am having furtive conversations in backrooms with my fellow communist revolutionaries, such as Steve and Monte. I regularly advertise world communism by calling for a fairer deal for tenants and the working poor and stating boldly that inequality is too damagingly great. You can't get more communist than that. The fact that I was once a member of a political party to the left Genghis Khan is surely damning. MI5 must have a file on dangerous communists like me. On the other hand, believing that Liz Truss was brought down by the global elite, wealthy financiers and bankers, the liberal woke establishment, City traders, and other well known communists makes total sense, naturally. You've not worked it out yet Benn. Orac is a Communist, he is building the cause by demonstrating just how bad the alternative is.  |
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Post by Zany on Sept 22, 2024 15:11:11 GMT
And I have a poster of Che Guevarra on my wall, and another of Chairman Mao, with a copy of Das Kapital in my back pocket. When not working for Tesco I am having furtive conversations in backrooms with my fellow communist revolutionaries, such as Steve and Monte. I regularly advertise world communism by calling for a fairer deal for tenants and the working poor and stating boldly that inequality is too damagingly great. You can't get more communist than that. The fact that I was once a member of a political party to the left Genghis Khan is surely damning. MI5 must have a file on dangerous communists like me. On the other hand, believing that Liz Truss was brought down by the global elite, wealthy financiers and bankers, the liberal woke establishment, City traders, and other well known communists makes total sense, naturally. That's all very well, but I bet you're not barred from having access to anything sharp when painting sunflowers.... Yes painting is a very bad sign.  |
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