Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2024 21:56:53 GMT
She'd have been personally bankrupted (for the costs) and likely jailed (abuse of public funds) had she tried. And any result of an illegal poll would be ignored. But this would have made a martyr out of her, made her a cause celebre north of the border, and ignoring the expressed will of the Scots had they voted in favour of leaving would have been an absolute gift to Scottish nationalism. There would have been no turning that around. And Sturgeon is unlikely to have been jailed for long, even had the government made the own goal of jailing her in the first place. Short term suppression of the Scots would inevitably backfire in the longer term. Had Sturgeon gone ahead, the most sensible thing for the government to have done would be to have made the referendum legal and tried hard to win it for the Union. Sturgeon should have called their bluff. And half the Scottish people once roused could have provided Sturgeon with plenty of funding. Nevertheless, I suspect this will prove to be another issue where you constantly seek to butt heads with me in favour of the powers that be without thinking beyond how you want it to be, so I will leave challenging you further to Amadan. It does not matter that much to me. It matters more to him. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 26, 2024 22:04:51 GMT
But it isn't suppression of 'the Scots' is it. They majority voted No in 2014, they didn't majority vote for SNP in July and all the polls suggest a Yes wish is a minority one now.
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Post by Amadan on Aug 27, 2024 7:07:42 GMT
eh ? gb energy was ready to go ( another labour lie apparently) within days of labour winning the election. You are looking increasingly silly Steve. It's going to be a long hard five years or so for you running around defending your blairite chums in new labour with the shite that starmer comes out with. Don't be daft. They hadn't got a pile of wind turbines behind the shed. They are ready to set the company up to start building them along with a promise from the government that it wont take 9 years to get planning and another 6 to connect to the national grid. Why do they need a pile of wind turbines behind the shed? GB energy from reports won't be a company that physically produces energy according to the journalist Andrew Neil , and what has this to do with labours promise that gb energy would be ready to go ( whatever its meant to be) within days of labour winning? |
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Post by Amadan on Aug 27, 2024 7:10:17 GMT
But it isn't suppression of 'the Scots' is it. They majority voted No in 2014, they didn't majority vote for SNP in July and all the polls suggest a Yes wish is a minority one now. What does that matter? Are you now claiming political parties winning general elections in scotland matters because labour won the most seats , while ignoring the fact the snp won every general election 2015 , 2017 , 2019 not to mention devolved and local Scottish elections ? As ever Steve , as we saw in the Brexit ref , and subsequently , results only matter to you when you win , and when you dont , you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and cry foul. |
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Post by Amadan on Aug 27, 2024 7:11:21 GMT
But it isn't suppression of 'the Scots' is it. They majority voted No in 2014, they didn't majority vote for SNP in July and all the polls suggest a Yes wish is a minority one now. to keep putting the boot in , we voted no in 2014 to leaving the uk that was in the EU , we weren't asked to remain in Brexit uk. |
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Post by Amadan on Aug 27, 2024 7:13:37 GMT
the disingenuous part is claiming "there is no great desire to leave" , clearly just under half those polled before any campaigning has started shows otherwise zany. No multi national state can survive that level of discontent with Westminster rule , as has been shown over the last century with the split up similarly of the brit empire. It's merely retreating back to where it all began. Well to me a great desire to leave means substantially more than 50% want that. Otherwise a referendum would be pointless. It would just confirm substantially more want to stay in than substantially want to leave. it doesn't to me. The word in your English language is "majority" not "great" . This is a poll , not a referendum , as I keep saying and we have a great desire to leave in polls ,without any campaigning or credible party championing leaving. |
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Post by Amadan on Aug 27, 2024 7:17:40 GMT
And any result of an illegal poll would be ignored. who by? wether the British agree with a poll or not is irrelevant. If we Scots had a party standing on an indy manifesto , offering to hold a referendum with or without Westminster agreement , a foreign de facto English parliament , and in a free and fair vote , Scots voted to leave by a majority , then what matters is what the international community thinks , not what little england thinks about one of its colonies leaving. What would you do ? send in the tanks? Would we have another Ukraine , only this time england in place of Russia as the aggressor because it cant afford to stand on its own two feet without Scottish resources? |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 27, 2024 7:35:29 GMT
But it isn't suppression of 'the Scots' is it. They majority voted No in 2014, they didn't majority vote for SNP in July and all the polls suggest a Yes wish is a minority one now. What does that matter? Are you now claiming political parties winning general elections in scotland matters because labour won the most seats , while ignoring the fact the snp won every general election 2015 , 2017 , 2019 not to mention devolved and local Scottish elections ? As ever Steve , as we saw in the Brexit ref , and subsequently , results only matter to you when you win , and when you dont , you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and cry foul. You do like imagining things don't you |
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Post by Amadan on Aug 27, 2024 7:40:04 GMT
What does that matter? Are you now claiming political parties winning general elections in scotland matters because labour won the most seats , while ignoring the fact the snp won every general election 2015 , 2017 , 2019 not to mention devolved and local Scottish elections ? As ever Steve , as we saw in the Brexit ref , and subsequently , results only matter to you when you win , and when you dont , you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and cry foul. You do like imagining things don't you im simply asking why Scots not voting for an indy party by majority of seats in July is now significant , when it wasnt significant for the union when the opposite happened in the election years mentioned? answers on a postcard to Steve. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 27, 2024 8:08:44 GMT
You can't reimagine what your post clearly said with that personal attack.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 27, 2024 8:11:52 GMT
Anyone know why a thread on Winter Fuel Allowance became yet another thread on Scottish Nationalism?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2024 9:12:46 GMT
But it isn't suppression of 'the Scots' is it. They majority voted No in 2014, they didn't majority vote for SNP in July and all the polls suggest a Yes wish is a minority one now. It would be if they held another referendum which they had a mandate for and the government tried to suppress it or ignored any vote to Leave. I have not said that there has been any suppression of the Scots thus far, bar the refusal to accept the democratic mandate they had to hold another referendum in the first place. Sturgeon's failure to effectively challenge this meant that no suppression was necessary even if contemplated. And whatever the opinion polls say now or at any time in the past or future is irrelevant. Opinions can change during a campaign. What matters is whether or not Scottish MPs and MSPs have a mandate from the people of Scotland to hold another referendum, If they do, they should have one, whatever the polls say. If they don't they shouldn't, likewise |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2024 9:17:35 GMT
Anyone know why a thread on Winter Fuel Allowance became yet another thread on Scottish Nationalism? Debates tend to be side tracked. It happens all the time. All of us - you and I included - who have participated in the Scottish Nationalism thing, are complicit in this de facto thread derailment. I suggest we cease doing so and get back to the winter fuel allowance issue, if anyone has anything new to add on that issue. I think I have said all I have to say on the topic, unless someone comes up with a new angle worth discussing. |
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Post by Amadan on Aug 27, 2024 17:20:57 GMT
Anyone know why a thread on Winter Fuel Allowance became yet another thread on Scottish Nationalism? stop appealing to others to hold your hand Steve. You are a big boy , and dont need mummy as I have told you many times before , to fight your battles for you. |
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Post by Amadan on Aug 27, 2024 17:23:34 GMT
Anyone know why a thread on Winter Fuel Allowance became yet another thread on Scottish Nationalism? Debates tend to be side tracked. It happens all the time. All of us - you and I included - who have participated in the Scottish Nationalism thing, are complicit in this de facto thread derailment. I suggest we cease doing so and get back to the winter fuel allowance issue, if anyone has anything new to add on that issue. I think I have said all I have to say on the topic, unless someone comes up with a new angle worth discussing. thats a fair enough post. I agree. I think the new angle will be added when we see the collateral damage to pensioners and the elderly and how starmers punitive de facto withdrawal of the winter fuel payment hits pensioners. Im guessing he is praying for a mild winter. I havent seen any long term forecasts that are taken this seriously this far out , but I wonder if someone has suggested to him the winter might be mild , or is it with such a majority albeit on such a record low vote share , he just doesn't care? |
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