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Post by Amadan on Aug 25, 2024 19:21:38 GMT
The above article appears to disagree with you monte , and that the beaker people almost universally replaced the previous inhabitants of these islands , who now only make. up about ten percent of the present populations DNA .( ie cheddar man)
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Post by montegriffo on Aug 25, 2024 21:20:56 GMT
The above article appears to disagree with you monte , and that the beaker people almost universally replaced the previous inhabitants of these islands , who now only make. up about ten percent of the present populations DNA .( ie cheddar man) Interesting article. I know Happisburgh in Norfolk and Pakefield in Suffolk well. Over 2,000 flint artefacts dating back 850,000 to 950,000 years found by the public on Happisburgh beach in the last few years. I might take a trip up to Happisburgh in the spring and have a look for myself.
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Post by Amadan on Aug 26, 2024 8:56:51 GMT
The above article appears to disagree with you monte , and that the beaker people almost universally replaced the previous inhabitants of these islands , who now only make. up about ten percent of the present populations DNA .( ie cheddar man) Interesting article. I know Happisburgh in Norfolk and Pakefield in Suffolk well. Over 2,000 flint artefacts dating back 850,000 to 950,000 years found by the public on Happisburgh beach in the last few years. I might take a trip up to Happisburgh in the spring and have a look for myself. well if im not mistaken monte , your genetically isolated theory about people in these islands doesn't hold any water according to that article and others I have read. Correct me if im wrong , but you appear to believe early humans came to these islands after the last ice age , some 10 000 years ago , got cut off when Doggerland flooded , built Stonehenge and scara brae , and have remained genetically isolated ever since taking on new ideas and technology but not new people. That article completely debunks that claim ,which as I said , is a sort of rehash of the island race theory. The original humans who came here were either almost universally replaced , or wiped out and overwhelmed , by the beaker people who came here some half a millenia after Stonehenge was built , and thousands of years after Doggerland flooded. This fits in with what we know , our history archaeology and myths and legends.. It shows how the majority of us genetically descend from the European beaker peoples , as do much of the people in western Central Europe , and would fit in with how. and when the original Celtic language , a sort of Proto Goidelic , came here first , followed by the spread of p Celtic , then later invaders and migrations. if im not mistaken , genetically both the Celts , and the germanic peoples descend from the beaker peoples. So this fits in with our history of these islands and migrations from Europe , that brought the people , technology and languages that overwhelmed the existing people who were here.
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Post by montegriffo on Aug 26, 2024 10:02:30 GMT
I never said genetically isolated. I talked about a pan European Neolithic culture of monolith builders. I just suggested that it was Beaker culture and technology that overwhelmed the Neolithic people not the Beaker People themselves. I'm not aware of any evidence that the original inhabitants were physically wiped out.
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Post by Amadan on Aug 26, 2024 11:33:04 GMT
I never said genetically isolated. I talked about a pan European Neolithic culture of monolith builders. I just suggested that it was Beaker culture and technology that overwhelmed the Neolithic people not the Beaker People themselves. I'm not aware of any evidence that the original inhabitants were physically wiped out. here's what you wrote ... your implication is clear from what you wrote numerous times on the previous threads , that essentially the neolithic people are the genetic ancestors of todays uk population . here's what my article said.. blogs.ucl.ac.uk/researchers-in-museums/2019/02/24/migration-event-when-did-the-first-humans-arrive-in-britain/ so what you are now claiming is contrary to what you earlier implied. clearly the article suggests otherwise . so what would you suggest? that there were that few humans living here prior to the beaker migration or invasions that their contribution to the peoples of these islands modern DNA is so negligible that it only accounts for 10% ? However you spin it monte , your theory doesn't actually hold any substance , either archaeologically , historically , linguistically or genetically.
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Post by Amadan on Aug 26, 2024 11:55:39 GMT
I'm not aware of any evidence that the original inhabitants were physically wiped out. well we have the stories in myth and legend of the gaels...........
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Post by Amadan on Aug 26, 2024 12:09:09 GMT
The Beaker people: a new population for ancient Britain
Ancient DNA shows that the culture that brought Bronze Age technology to Britain was connected to a migration that almost completely replaced the island's earlier inhabitants.
The DNA data suggests that over a span of several hundred years, the migrations of people from continental Europe led to an almost complete replacement of Britain's earlier inhabitants, the Neolithic communities who were responsible for huge megalithic monuments such as Stonehenge.
www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/february/the-beaker-people-a-new-population-for-ancient-britain.html
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Post by Orac on Aug 26, 2024 14:17:38 GMT
There was a plan that involved moving a stone from the north of Scotland, all the way down to Salisbury. This is 6000 years ago Britain at the time was supposedly 'barely inhabited' (or am i wrong?) - my modelling of the situation would be that the people living in this area England wouldn't have known about the north of Scotland. never mind be drawing maps and plans to move rocks from there. Wales was a bit of stretch.. im no sure I agree here orac. The neolithic people who inhabited these islands at the time originated in what is now modern turkey , so if they could travel that distance , and have large trading links with Europe , why wouldn't they know the northern parts of these islands? I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying it is not expected. The first signs of trade in Britain are currently thought to be about 4000 years ago. People wandered from place to place over generations, but that is a completely different matter to having a connection to where you left (ie an economic empire of sorts). This timing places the stone movement right at the start of advent of farming in Britain. I'm not suggesting anything odd, just that our models of the period may be wrong - they are, in any case, significantly guesswork. Currently our guesstimate for the population of Britain at the time would be in the thousands.
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Post by Amadan on Aug 26, 2024 14:40:26 GMT
im no sure I agree here orac. The neolithic people who inhabited these islands at the time originated in what is now modern turkey , so if they could travel that distance , and have large trading links with Europe , why wouldn't they know the northern parts of these islands? I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying it is not expected. The first signs of trade in Britain are currently thought to be about 4000 years ago. People wandered from place to place over generations, but that is a completely different matter to having a connection to where you left (ie an economic empire of sorts). This timing places the stone movement right at the start of advent of farming in Britain. I'm not suggesting anything odd, just that our models of the period may be wrong - they are, in any case, significantly guesswork. Currently our guesstimate for the population of Britain at the time would be in the thousands. without a doubt. I think once you go beyond the realm of scholastic research , covering the last two thousand years , you are then into the realm of educated guesswork. to get back to knowledge of areas further away and trade with them in neolithic times you originally said.. I disagree with that. we know from archaeological finds that stone axe heads in neolithic times have been found in britian that were traded from as far away as the alps. so im not sure why people in Stonehenge wouldn't know about the north of scotland , but people in mainland britian in neolithic times traded in stone axes with ireland and as far away as the Alps in Europe.? link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10816-019-09438-6
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Post by Orac on Aug 26, 2024 15:38:39 GMT
The first signs of axehead trade in Britain were about 2000 years later (4000 years ago)
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Post by Amadan on Aug 26, 2024 15:50:38 GMT
The first signs of axehead trade in Britain were about 2000 years later (4000 years ago) Stonehenge was built in six stages between 3000 and 1520 BCE, during the transition from the Neolithic Period (New Stone Age) to the Bronze Age. the first stone axe heads were traded 4000 bc , within the time frame mentioned? www.britannica.com/topic/Stonehenge
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Post by Orac on Aug 26, 2024 16:11:49 GMT
The first signs of axehead trade in Britain were about 2000 years later (4000 years ago) Stonehenge was built in six stages between 3000 and 1520 BCE, during the transition from the Neolithic Period (New Stone Age) to the Bronze Age. the first stone axe heads were traded 4000 bc , within the time frame mentioned? www.britannica.com/topic/StonehengeYes - you are right about that (i got my numbers wrong), But I don't think it really does that much to refute my point.(a bit perhaps) This is right at that point in time More broadly, it is quite outlandish that the few (perhaps 10-15) thousand people who supposedly lived in Britain at the time would co-operate to move a stone 700 miles
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Post by montegriffo on Aug 26, 2024 17:51:40 GMT
Stonehenge was built in six stages between 3000 and 1520 BCE, during the transition from the Neolithic Period (New Stone Age) to the Bronze Age. the first stone axe heads were traded 4000 bc , within the time frame mentioned? www.britannica.com/topic/StonehengeYes - you are right about that (i got my numbers wrong), But I don't think it really does that much to refute my point.(a bit perhaps) This is right at that point in time More broadly, it is quite outlandish that the few (perhaps 10-15) thousand people who supposedly lived in Britain at the time would co-operate to move a stone 700 miles 250,000 people lived on the British Isles at the time. Only a very small number would be required to sail it down the coast and up the Avon. Once at the end of the Avenue it could be moved by just a few dozen men.
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Post by montegriffo on Aug 26, 2024 17:57:21 GMT
The Beaker people: a new population for ancient Britain
Ancient DNA shows that the culture that brought Bronze Age technology to Britain was connected to a migration that almost completely replaced the island's earlier inhabitants.
The DNA data suggests that over a span of several hundred years, the migrations of people from continental Europe led to an almost complete replacement of Britain's earlier inhabitants, the Neolithic communities who were responsible for huge megalithic monuments such as Stonehenge.
www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/february/the-beaker-people-a-new-population-for-ancient-britain.html From your study.
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Post by Amadan on Aug 27, 2024 6:54:59 GMT
The Beaker people: a new population for ancient Britain
Ancient DNA shows that the culture that brought Bronze Age technology to Britain was connected to a migration that almost completely replaced the island's earlier inhabitants.
The DNA data suggests that over a span of several hundred years, the migrations of people from continental Europe led to an almost complete replacement of Britain's earlier inhabitants, the Neolithic communities who were responsible for huge megalithic monuments such as Stonehenge.
www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/february/the-beaker-people-a-new-population-for-ancient-britain.html From your study. ok ? Dont get your point? What has the beaker culture spreading into Central Europe from Iberia without an apparent significant movement of people got to do with the beaker people largely replacing the neolithic population of these islands , according to genetic studies , which of course isnt Central Europe but north west Europe
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