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Post by AvonCalling on Aug 3, 2024 14:29:58 GMT
No idea why anyone would defend the EDL when Tommy Robinson is a convicted coke dealer, as I pointed out before (IIRC Orac engaged in whataboutery about that, at the time) The fact Labour are releasing so many prisoners and are adopting a soft on crime approach (which is not to say a hard-right wing tough on crime approach is correct either, because it isn't at all) is going to make people very angry and groups like the EDL and other would-be terrorist groups are going to capitalise on this to incite riots and try to push their agenda on the country At the same time, what happened is an absolute tragedy and should not be forgotten just because the EDL want to capitalise on it. No one should lose sight of the terrible atrocities committed and use it to troll others, that is lower than a snake's belly I guess it's a trade off. You either release prisoners or build more prisons. So the question is if you don't want prisoners released (it was also my understanding that these were low risk prisoners as far as that can be safely ascertained) how much more tax are you willing to pay to keep them in prison. For me the make someone else pay the tax for it argument illustrates a lack of commitment to the solution or that you are just griping.. not that I am accusing you of either. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2024 14:48:42 GMT
If it prevents children from being killed and people from being raped etc etc, yes, everyone should be in favour of a little more tax IMHO
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 3, 2024 15:21:13 GMT
If it prevents children from being killed and people from being raped etc etc, yes, everyone should be in favour of a little more tax IMHO Agreed I suspect part of the mooted prisoner release is so there will always be space to lock up EDL thugs and other terrorists |
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Post by patman post on Aug 3, 2024 15:27:19 GMT
If it prevents children from being killed and people from being raped etc etc, yes, everyone should be in favour of a little more tax IMHO Seems a lopsided reason for tax increases, which now look like they’re going to be spent on police overtime, repairing public property, and prosecuting rioters… |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2024 15:31:43 GMT
If it prevents children from being killed and people from being raped etc etc, yes, everyone should be in favour of a little more tax IMHO Agreed I suspect part of the mooted prisoner release is so there will always be space to lock up EDL thugs and other terrorists As bad as the EDL terrorists/thugs and apologists for such are, child rapists and mass murderers (and real terrorists with bombs) are a much bigger threat, as are those who enable them |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2024 15:33:01 GMT
If it prevents children from being killed and people from being raped etc etc, yes, everyone should be in favour of a little more tax IMHO Seems a lopsided reason for tax increases, which now look like they’re going to be spent on police overtime, repairing public property, and prosecuting rioters… I can see what you mean, money goes into the general pot and gets spent where it will get spent rather than being directed to the right places. I can't fault your logic but to me the protection of children/elderly/disabled etc is the most important thing and a country that can't stop the worst crimes from being committed really needs to do some introspection |
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Post by aristaeus on Aug 3, 2024 15:40:35 GMT
281 people were arrested during the BLM riots. But i'm not talking about the hypocrisy of the police Keir's response was quite sympathetic - despite the violence. For him any violence was a very much a secondary issue. The common view in the media was that violence was 'understandable'  You know fine well that taking the knee was a protest about police brutality and not support for the rioters |
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Post by aristaeus on Aug 3, 2024 15:45:27 GMT
No idea why anyone would defend the EDL when Tommy Robinson is a convicted coke dealer, as I pointed out before (IIRC Orac engaged in whataboutery about that, at the time) The fact Labour are releasing so many prisoners and are adopting a soft on crime approach (which is not to say a hard-right wing tough on crime approach is correct either, because it isn't at all) is going to make people very angry and groups like the EDL and other would-be terrorist groups are going to capitalise on this to incite riots and try to push their agenda on the country At the same time, what happened is an absolute tragedy and should not be forgotten just because the EDL want to capitalise on it. No one should lose sight of the terrible atrocities committed and use it to troll others, that is lower than a snake's belly I don't think Starmer is taking a soft-on-crime approach. He's releasing some non-violent prisoners to make room for violent prisoners. |
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Post by patman post on Aug 3, 2024 15:45:37 GMT
Seems a lopsided reason for tax increases, which now look like they’re going to be spent on police overtime, repairing public property, and prosecuting rioters… I can see what you mean, money goes into the general pot and gets spent where it will get spent rather than being directed to the right places. I can't fault your logic but to me the protection of children/elderly/disabled etc is the most important thing and a country that can't stop the worst crimes from being committed really needs to do some introspection A civilised society should have safety nets and welfare arrangements for its people when they need them — but I don’t like the thought that any of my taxes should be diverted to protecting me and others and our property from the actions of politically motivated violent rioting fellow citizens… |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2024 15:52:57 GMT
No idea why anyone would defend the EDL when Tommy Robinson is a convicted coke dealer, as I pointed out before (IIRC Orac engaged in whataboutery about that, at the time) The fact Labour are releasing so many prisoners and are adopting a soft on crime approach (which is not to say a hard-right wing tough on crime approach is correct either, because it isn't at all) is going to make people very angry and groups like the EDL and other would-be terrorist groups are going to capitalise on this to incite riots and try to push their agenda on the country At the same time, what happened is an absolute tragedy and should not be forgotten just because the EDL want to capitalise on it. No one should lose sight of the terrible atrocities committed and use it to troll others, that is lower than a snake's belly I don't think Starmer is taking a soft-on-crime approach. He's releasing some non-violent prisoners to make room for violent prisoners. Non-violent includes people who committed things like fraud and other serious crimes which have very deleterious effects on society, it needs to be managed carefully. I've read plenty about Starmer and don't trust him to do the right thing, all of it comes from liberal sites and places like Full Fact not conspiracy sites |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2024 15:54:15 GMT
Is dealing drugs technically a non violent crime? If you're dealing drugs to kids that might not be considered violent, but it is really, really bad
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Post by Zany on Aug 3, 2024 17:05:26 GMT
Does Orac have an alibi for the night of those events in Stockport? Yes he was with me in the Fox having a pint.  |
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Post by Zany on Aug 3, 2024 17:07:35 GMT
No idea why anyone would defend the EDL when Tommy Robinson is a convicted coke dealer, as I pointed out before (IIRC Orac engaged in whataboutery about that, at the time) The fact Labour are releasing so many prisoners and are adopting a soft on crime approach (which is not to say a hard-right wing tough on crime approach is correct either, because it isn't at all) is going to make people very angry and groups like the EDL and other would-be terrorist groups are going to capitalise on this to incite riots and try to push their agenda on the country At the same time, what happened is an absolute tragedy and should not be forgotten just because the EDL want to capitalise on it. No one should lose sight of the terrible atrocities committed and use it to troll others, that is lower than a snake's belly I guess it's a trade off. You either release prisoners or build more prisons. So the question is if you don't want prisoners released (it was also my understanding that these were low risk prisoners as far as that can be safely ascertained) how much more tax are you willing to pay to keep them in prison. For me the make someone else pay the tax for it argument illustrates a lack of commitment to the solution or that you are just griping.. not that I am accusing you of either. The problem I have with saving the tax this way is does it? Release prisoners early and you send out a message that crime pays along with a cost of that. Still short term emergency is different. |
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Post by Orac on Aug 3, 2024 18:26:01 GMT
But i'm not talking about the hypocrisy of the police Keir's response was quite sympathetic - despite the violence. For him any violence was a very much a secondary issue. The common view in the media was that violence was 'understandable' You know fine well that taking the knee was a protest about police brutality and not support for the rioters So, there is nothing wrong with publicly displaying sympathy with the aims of a movement that engages in violent protest (that's the standard that was set)There does seem to be a bit of cognitive black hole around this for many. Don't trip over your own nonsense. |
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Post by Orac on Aug 3, 2024 18:35:32 GMT
Nothing much from you here - except the usual foaming and whining about the impertinence of an Englishman who didn't turn children into mincemeat, but instead complained about it Seems strange when Englishmen feel they need to riot and d estroy property and injure police in towns and cities around their own country that they say they want back… ..and now there is a switcheroo to a different subject / tack and we get another slice of BLM hypocrisy.floating to the surface It's like an interlocking crossword puzzle where every answer is another cognitive distortion |
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