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Post by Zany on Aug 1, 2024 15:59:12 GMT
A violent fight at someone's wedding is not comparable to a violent fight at someone's stag do. Of course, if it happened anywhere else, that fact that it did so would have provided another route to your preferred conclusion. Someone who is accused of hypocrisy looks for a distinction - any distinction will do Total and conscious dishonesty That makes literally no sense.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,597
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Post by Steve on Aug 1, 2024 16:11:07 GMT
Edward Dutton makes the same point Another pig ignorant liar that you're following. Well actually he's more like a deceitful manipulating liar. Why do you give these human detritus houseroom in your brain? And more to the point why do you post them up as some sort of supposed gospel when you know they're going to get shown up for what they are and it will reflect on you. Your terrorism stiring up source said: ^
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,597
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Post by Steve on Aug 1, 2024 16:20:16 GMT
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RedRum
Full Member
"Smaller in number are we, but larger in mind.”
Posts: 245
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Post by RedRum on Aug 1, 2024 17:34:42 GMT
Where where the riots when Letby was convicted of killing 7 babies?
Why now?
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,597
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Post by Steve on Aug 1, 2024 18:16:40 GMT
Where where the riots when Letby was convicted of killing 7 babies? Why now? Letby deserves a whole new thread. See the current Private Eye to be very disturbed
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Post by patman post on Aug 1, 2024 19:07:16 GMT
Where where the riots when Letby was convicted of killing 7 babies? Why now? Letby deserves a whole new thread. See the current Private Eye to be very disturbed The Southport and associated mob violence didn’t/don’t require truth. So how come the Letby conviction against a real person wasn’t enough to get the mobs assembling and causing mayhem…?
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Post by patman post on Aug 1, 2024 19:20:47 GMT
Why is it hypocrisy to be against violent street demonstrations? I'm not saying that it is - that's my position. For instance i didn't try to trivialise the 18 month long spasm of arson, looting, vandalism and assault that happened in the US. I'm also highlighting the shift in tone in the official commentary on various recent protests. You would have to give the conversation a glance to see my point., Neither have I tried to trivialise anything — even less so anything in the US, as I live in the UK. The thread was — and I thought still is — about EDL travelling to assemble to physically attack the Police in the streets of this land. I don’t see what’s hypocritical about questioning what attacks achieve, or saying such actions are wrong — that’s just my position…
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Post by Orac on Aug 2, 2024 6:46:59 GMT
I'm not saying that it is - that's my position. For instance i didn't try to trivialise the 18 month long spasm of arson, looting, vandalism and assault that happened in the US. I'm also highlighting the shift in tone in the official commentary on various recent protests. You would have to give the conversation a glance to see my point., Neither have I tried to trivialise anything — even less so anything in the US, as I live in the UK. The thread was — and I thought still is — about EDL travelling to assemble to physically attack the Police in the streets of this land. I don’t see what’s hypocritical about questioning what attacks achieve, or saying such actions are wrong — that’s just my position… I think we need to reset this discussion slightly. I didn't accuse you of hypocrisy, you responded to me accusing someone else of hypocrisy. I'm pretty sure you engage the same hypocrisy, but i can't be sure.. I didn't suggest it was hypocritical to question the value of such attacks on the police. In fact, I do seriously question the value of such attacks myself. The hypocrisy in question is trivialising or downplaying violence when it comes from one group or position, but being utterly outraged when it comes from is another. As far as I know the EDL doesn't exist anymore.
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Post by Orac on Aug 2, 2024 6:56:54 GMT
Edward Dutton makes the same point Another pig ignorant liar that you're following. Well actually he's more like a deceitful manipulating liar. Why do you give these human detritus houseroom in your brain? And more to the point why do you post them up as some sort of supposed gospel when you know they're going to get shown up for what they are and it will reflect on you. Your terrorism stiring up source said: ^ I don't see any of these people as sources or 'gospel'. I'm positing these as a convenient way to convey my opinion. The supposed 'lie' you decided to highlight is known as 'an opinion'
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Post by Zany on Aug 2, 2024 7:14:12 GMT
Neither have I tried to trivialise anything — even less so anything in the US, as I live in the UK. The thread was — and I thought still is — about EDL travelling to assemble to physically attack the Police in the streets of this land. I don’t see what’s hypocritical about questioning what attacks achieve, or saying such actions are wrong — that’s just my position… I think we need to reset this discussion slightly. I didn't accuse you of hypocrisy, you responded to me accusing someone else of hypocrisy. I'm pretty sure you engage the same hypocrisy, but i can't be sure.. I didn't suggest it was hypocritical to question the value of such attacks on the police. In fact, I do seriously question the value of such attacks myself. The hypocrisy in question is trivialising or downplaying violence when it comes from one group or position, but being utterly outraged when it comes from is another. As far as I know the EDL doesn't exist anymore. I think the mistake you make is to assume one size fits all and people are less discerning than they are. If a car cuts in front of a queue at speed, most people would agree that person was a prat. If an ambulance did the same most would not. Every opinion depends on the facts around it. So people have more sympathy with BLM because of the police actions leading up to the attacks. Very few have sympathy for those attacking the police in Southport because of the lack of justification and especially their timing. Maybe you should inform us of your justification for the actions of these people at that place and time.
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Post by Orac on Aug 2, 2024 9:02:13 GMT
I think we need to reset this discussion slightly. I didn't accuse you of hypocrisy, you responded to me accusing someone else of hypocrisy. I'm pretty sure you engage the same hypocrisy, but i can't be sure.. I didn't suggest it was hypocritical to question the value of such attacks on the police. In fact, I do seriously question the value of such attacks myself. The hypocrisy in question is trivialising or downplaying violence when it comes from one group or position, but being utterly outraged when it comes from is another. As far as I know the EDL doesn't exist anymore. So people have more sympathy with BLM because of the police actions leading up to the attacks. You are mixing two things up here. Having sympathy with one side or the other and judging their actions If you judge the actions of actors using different standards, then your sympathy for one side or the other, which should clearly depend on their actions is hideously suspect. Another way to put it is you have a circularity - You have more sympathy for the actions of one side because you have more sympathy for them - and - You have more sympathy for one side because you have more sympathy for their actions. Given these assumption - that this group is somewhat justified in assaulting the police - it is very easy to see how you would come to the conclusion that the police were acting unfairly - ie they get justly assaulted' and react 'in an unjustified way against that just assault. Do you see? Given your position, how would you argue with someone who minimised the assaults on the police in Southport because he had sympathy with the claims and grievances of the people making the attacks? To put it more succinctly, you are simply accepting my accusation of hypocrisy
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,597
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Post by Steve on Aug 2, 2024 9:26:13 GMT
Another pig ignorant liar that you're following. Well actually he's more like a deceitful manipulating liar. Why do you give these human detritus houseroom in your brain? And more to the point why do you post them up as some sort of supposed gospel when you know they're going to get shown up for what they are and it will reflect on you. Your terrorism stiring up source said: ^ I don't see any of these people as sources or 'gospel'. I'm positing these as a convenient way to convey my opinion. The supposed 'lie' you decided to highlight is known as 'an opinion' An 'opinion' expressed as a supposed fact when known to be untrue is a lie
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Post by Orac on Aug 2, 2024 9:28:03 GMT
I don't see any of these people as sources or 'gospel'. I'm positing these as a convenient way to convey my opinion. The supposed 'lie' you decided to highlight is known as 'an opinion' An 'opinion' expressed as a supposed fact when known to be untrue is a lie I think you just have difficulty perceiving the difference between an opinion and a fact. - both in the case of other people's positions and your own. Your next move could well be to claim that I'm 'lying'
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,597
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Post by Steve on Aug 2, 2024 9:46:13 GMT
I suggest you are just in denial that your sources blatantly assert supposed facts that are obviously untrue.
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Post by Orac on Aug 2, 2024 10:04:27 GMT
I suggest you are just in denial that your sources blatantly assert supposed facts that are obviously untrue. If i tell you about another persons motivations and thoughts, it is self evident I am offering an opinion. The really troubling thing about your condition , is that someone else will offer you an opinion about another's motivations and thoughts and, because you agree with that opinion, you will consider it a fact.
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