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Post by Zany on May 21, 2024 14:31:27 GMT
Why not build houses here.↓↓ (Put a few hundred trees around it and looks lovely, better than it is now. It's not a good idea, but even if it was, people wont allow you to do it. When people hear the term 'house-building' they know what it means - that the houses are not for them or their children, they are instead intended for the 'special people' who are being moved in from Africa, the middle east and south Asia. Nonsense. There are thousands of houses being built all around Cambridge, no one ever says they're not for us. They say they're out of our price range, but not that they're for the special people. But in any case we need to stop immigration rather than build over the entire country. BUT that still means building enough for the people who already live here.
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Post by Orac on May 21, 2024 16:12:35 GMT
It's not a good idea, but even if it was, people wont allow you to do it. When people hear the term 'house-building' they know what it means - that the houses are not for them or their children, they are instead intended for the 'special people' who are being moved in from Africa, the middle east and south Asia. But in any case we need to stop immigration rather than build over the entire country. BUT that still means building enough for the people who already live here. That would be fine in principle if the government could be (somewhat) relied to play with a straight bat on this matter. (they can't) We have just had a decade of government feinting and pretending it intends to reduce immigration, while at the same time ratcheting it up relentlessly. Given this, 'more housing' can be regarded as simply code for 'more room for more immigration'. Earlier i said this perverse immigration policy made sensible social policy impossible.
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Post by Zany on May 21, 2024 16:35:37 GMT
But in any case we need to stop immigration rather than build over the entire country. BUT that still means building enough for the people who already live here. That would be fine in principle if the government could be (somewhat) relied to play with a straight bat on this matter. (they can't) We have just had a decade of government feinting and pretending it intends to reduce immigration, while at the same time ratcheting it up relentlessly. Given this, 'more housing' can be regarded as simply code for 'more room for more immigration'. Earlier i said this perverse immigration policy made sensible social policy impossible. So what's your chosen solution? Stop building houses and let people sleep in tents.
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Post by Orac on May 21, 2024 16:48:35 GMT
That would be fine in principle if the government could be (somewhat) relied to play with a straight bat on this matter. (they can't) We have just had a decade of government feinting and pretending it intends to reduce immigration, while at the same time ratcheting it up relentlessly. Given this, 'more housing' can be regarded as simply code for 'more room for more immigration'. Earlier i said this perverse immigration policy made sensible social policy impossible. So what's your chosen solution? Stop building houses and let people sleep in tents. I don't know. Any cohesive and radical / useful social policy is going to require some level of trust. I don't know how a government goes about rebuilding that after spending fifty years taking enormous, leisurely dumps on the clearly expressed wishes of their people.
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Post by Zany on May 21, 2024 19:47:56 GMT
So what's your chosen solution? Stop building houses and let people sleep in tents. I don't know. Any cohesive and radical / useful social policy is going to require some level of trust. I don't know how a government goes about rebuilding that after spending fifty years taking enormous, leisurely dumps on the clearly expressed wishes of their people. I know immigration was just as strong under new Labour, but I don't remember there being this level of objection across the whole country. Point being is will Labour recognise public opinion and slow down immigration. And then build homes? I think that would keep them in power for a long time. Watch this space. A difficult one for you? If lefties stopped immigration
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,556
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Post by Steve on May 21, 2024 20:56:59 GMT
. . .When people hear the term 'house-building' they know what it means - that the houses are not for them or their children, they are instead intended for the 'special people' who are being moved in from Africa, the middle east and south Asia. As Zany said: nonsense
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Post by Orac on May 22, 2024 7:43:16 GMT
I don't know. Any cohesive and radical / useful social policy is going to require some level of trust. I don't know how a government goes about rebuilding that after spending fifty years taking enormous, leisurely dumps on the clearly expressed wishes of their people. I know immigration was just as strong under new Labour, but I don't remember there being this level of objection across the whole country. Point being is will Labour recognise public opinion and slow down immigration. And then build homes? I think that would keep them in power for a long time. Watch this space. A difficult one for you? If lefties stopped immigration I think it's a very good question. I have severe doubts this will ever happen, but will give Labour the credit they deserve if it does. I have long suggested to labour supporters that, if Labour were to severely limit immigration into the UK, they could probably introduce realms of bat-shit crazy socialist nonsense on the back of that achievement and still remain popular. The Conservatives would likely be annihilated entirely. If they also dropped the wokery and introduced social policy that dealt with the land-issue, they might even get my vote. Difficult for me? Hardly. I don't think the country has a future unless this is stopped.
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Post by Zany on May 22, 2024 8:10:29 GMT
I know immigration was just as strong under new Labour, but I don't remember there being this level of objection across the whole country. Point being is will Labour recognise public opinion and slow down immigration. And then build homes? I think that would keep them in power for a long time. Watch this space. A difficult one for you? If lefties stopped immigration I think it's a very good question. I have severe doubts this will ever happen, but will give Labour the credit they deserve if it does. I have long suggested to labour supporters that, if Labour were to severely limit immigration into the UK, they could probably introduce realms of bat-shit crazy socialist nonsense on the back of that achievement and still remain popular. The Conservatives would likely be annihilated entirely. If they also dropped the wokery and introduced social policy that dealt with the land-issue, they might even get my vote. Difficult for me? Hardly. I don't think the country has a future unless this is stopped. I think a slow change will be the only way to do it. But as is typical of every change we must make, we have left it until people are screaming and therefore a slow change will feel unacceptable. Same as with Net zero.
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Post by Orac on May 22, 2024 8:39:43 GMT
I think it's a very good question. I have severe doubts this will ever happen, but will give Labour the credit they deserve if it does. I have long suggested to labour supporters that, if Labour were to severely limit immigration into the UK, they could probably introduce realms of bat-shit crazy socialist nonsense on the back of that achievement and still remain popular. The Conservatives would likely be annihilated entirely. If they also dropped the wokery and introduced social policy that dealt with the land-issue, they might even get my vote. Difficult for me? Hardly. I don't think the country has a future unless this is stopped. I think a slow change will be the only way to do it. But as is typical of every change we must make, we have left it until people are screaming and therefore a slow change will feel unacceptable. Same as with Net zero. I would hope the changes would be introduced using Blair's 'no going back now, over the waterfall' approach which he used to create constitutional changes that meant any following administration would have to literally repeal laws in order to have independent policies of their own. The changes would have to be brought in in such a way as reversing them becomes extremely loud and public - ie "we have now returned to the old policy of transplanting Somali criminal organisations into English communities"
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Post by Zany on May 22, 2024 17:02:23 GMT
I think a slow change will be the only way to do it. But as is typical of every change we must make, we have left it until people are screaming and therefore a slow change will feel unacceptable. Same as with Net zero. I would hope the changes would be introduced using Blair's 'no going back now, over the waterfall' approach which he used to create constitutional changes that meant any following administration would have to literally repeal laws in order to have independent policies of their own. The changes would have to be brought in in such a way as reversing them becomes extremely loud and public - ie "we have now returned to the old policy of transplanting Somali criminal organisations into English communities" Would be an interesting law that limits the number of migrants. Not sure about importing Somali criminal organisations. As far as I know they come uninvited.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,556
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Post by Steve on May 22, 2024 17:12:13 GMT
We give citizenship when we should give residence, we give residence when we should give work permits and we give work permits when we should just say no.
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Post by Zany on May 22, 2024 17:21:27 GMT
We give citizenship when we should give residence, we give residence when we should give work permits and we give work permits when we should just say no. Very good idea.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,556
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Post by Steve on May 22, 2024 19:05:23 GMT
But anyone thinking that what we do is some sort of conspiracy is in cloud cuckoo land. It's been a litany of cock ups. Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
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Post by Orac on May 23, 2024 8:39:43 GMT
I would hope the changes would be introduced using Blair's 'no going back now, over the waterfall' approach which he used to create constitutional changes that meant any following administration would have to literally repeal laws in order to have independent policies of their own. The changes would have to be brought in in such a way as reversing them becomes extremely loud and public - ie "we have now returned to the old policy of transplanting Somali criminal organisations into English communities" Would be an interesting law that limits the number of migrants. Not sure about importing Somali criminal organisations. As far as I know they come uninvited. The invitation is implicit. Everyone involved knows these countries are run by organised crime syndicates Everyone involved knows that involvement in such runs through the population to the point that this criminality is essentially their 'culture' Everyone involved knows that these organisation would gain great advantage from being allowed to set up in the UK Everyone involved knows that UK culture doesn't have the proper 'on the ground' cultural defenses against this level of advanced parasitism (is / was a high trust society) Given the above and the lack of any upside,. it is hard to see the policy as anything but a deliberate attempt to abuse the people of the UK - to allow such a setup to occur.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,556
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Post by Steve on May 23, 2024 12:11:28 GMT
It may be hard for you to see 'the policy as anything but a deliberate attempt to abuse the people of the UK' but it's so obvious that you're wrong.
BTW we have had significant numbers of Somalis here for centuries, they were known for hard physical work and much used in ports.
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