Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,702
|
Post by Steve on Sept 1, 2024 21:27:41 GMT
Going to be hard to find objective comparisons. Taking cannabis once a month sounds like a light user to me. One of the big differences between alcohol and cannabis is I suggest most alcohol users drink because they like the taste and most cannabis users because they like the effect.
|
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,702
|
Post by Steve on Sept 1, 2024 21:33:43 GMT
So could most people I'd think. I reckon I'd find it harder to give up chocalate or sugar than my occasional drink.What would be useful to know is what proportions of either alcohol or cannabis users do as a result have or cause real 'problems' and indeed objective evidence of which way was the causality. We can all find the news reports of the cases where it went wrong but finding numbers of provenance for those where it didn't will be hard (man bites dog applies) Does anyone have real figures for such? And there we have it. An actual user of alcohol who has a vested interest in the same standards not being applied to it. I gave up cannabis decades ago and can go months on end without having a drink. Apparently your need to use alcohol is greater than mine. Funny that. I also note that I found it far easier to give up cannabis than you apparently do to give up the drug of your choice. Make of that what you will . . I don't need to drink alcohol, I never get drunk. Like many people I like the taste of the occasional small drink and never drink to the level of psychoactive effect the cannabis users I've known have habitually sought. FWIW am only half way through the crate of Peroni Red we bought in May.
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Sept 1, 2024 21:39:48 GMT
Do we? Which beloved sister of yours succumbed. Which intensive care bed did you sit by for days? Most people are not heavy drinkers. If you really knew an alcoholics you would know the vast difference between what normal people worry is drinking too much and what an alcoholic puts away. Are you claiming cannabis and tobacco are harmless now Jeez. In my case it was my stepfather who died when he was the age I am now. Not only did he suffer but he made my mother's life hell until she finally left him. Like I said, we all know somebody whose life was ruined by drink. No, I'm not claiming that either is harmless. I'm saying that it is illogical to ban one and not the other or alcohol which is probably the most harmful of the three. Cannabis doesn't cause violence on our streets at the weekends or domestic violence in our homes. Alcohol does. Sorry you went through that. I still can't get used to the idea I could help my little sis. So many parties and hols together, two sons left devastated by it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2024 22:18:22 GMT
Going to be hard to find objective comparisons. Taking cannabis once a month sounds like a light user to me. One of the big differences between alcohol and cannabis is I suggest most alcohol users drink because they like the taste and most cannabis users because they like the effect. The latter is certainly true of cannabis users. But drinking alcohol for the taste is often an acquired taste that comes in later life. Most people I have ever known drink alcohol for the effect too, though not necessarily getting blind drunk, but often enough just to feel mellow. I would not drink just one can because it would seem pointless. If I were going to do that I would rather just have a cup of tea. I usually drink two to four cans on the rare occasions when I have a drink just to feel relaxed and mellow. I have probably only drank 6 cans in total this year so far and only drink lager, not the hard stuff anymore. Though PD is impacting my memory so i could conceivably have forgotten other times.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2024 22:33:06 GMT
We all know people destroyed by alcohol. You make my point for me. I have more than 40 years of regular use of cannabis to go by. It's only about a year ago that I stopped for financial reasons and only 6 months since I gave up tobacco. I know which one I'll never go back to. Luckily I've never been a heavy or regular drinker. I can go for weeks or even months without alcohol. Do we? Which beloved sister of yours succumbed. Which intensive care bed did you sit by for days? Most people are not heavy drinkers. If you really knew an alcoholics you would know the vast difference between what normal people worry is drinking too much and what an alcoholic puts away. Are you claiming cannabis and tobacco are harmless now Jeez. I think a lot of it is down to perspective and what we have witnessed in life. Someone raised by a habitual drunk who regularly beat his wife and kids and who eventually died of liver disease, whilst only ever seeing pot smokers being happy, is going to have a very different perspective to someone who has only ever known happy sensible drinkers but who has lost their brother to suicide resulting from cannabis induced psychosis. Perspective can be informed by such personal experiences and can inform where we are coming from but it does need to be superseded by logical thinking so we are not driven by emotion. One of my friends is a lifelong teetotaller having been raised by a couple of drunks. He smoked pot instead for a time but has long since given that up now. He absolutely hates alcohol and drunk people.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2024 23:39:49 GMT
Going to be hard to find objective comparisons. Taking cannabis once a month sounds like a light user to me. One of the big differences between alcohol and cannabis is I suggest most alcohol users drink because they like the taste and most cannabis users because they like the effect. When it comes to recreational use of most things, moderate users when young and childless tend to indulge mostly on weekend evenings - assuming they work Monday to Friday. People who are constantly stoned or half drunk have a problem if they continue in this vein for long. As they settle down with someone and have kids, the responsible ones barely partake at all anymore unless they have sorted out a babysitter. With both cannabis and alcohol users there is a distinction between the problem users and the more responsible recreational ones. I have known alcoholics and cannabis smokers who were constantly pissed or stoned even at work. The problem drinkers usually lost their jobs and hit rock bottom more quickly than the stoners, simply because it is easier to function with some semblance of normality when stoned. It can be less obvious when someone is stoned than when they are drunk. A stoned person might move more slowly and be far less engaged conversationally and might have droopy eyelids, but this is not always obvious to most people. A stoned person can still walk in a straight line, still handle familiar tasks requiring some dexterity and does not exhibit slurred speech, though he will be far less sharp of mind and far less alert. But this might not be visually obvious. I have known people who held down jobs for years whilst stoned, but ill advised obviously. A stoned person is most obviously stoned when he first smokes a spliff because he can feel euphoric, have a stupid grin on his face, possibly finding the most ridiculous things funny and looking like he is away with the fairies. A newly stoned person is almost as easy to spot as a drunk. But someone who is continuously stoned is rarely quite so obvious. Paradoxically this makes problem stoners much harder to spot than recreational ones, which is the opposite of the situation with alcohol abusers.
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Sept 2, 2024 7:09:59 GMT
Do we? Which beloved sister of yours succumbed. Which intensive care bed did you sit by for days? Most people are not heavy drinkers. If you really knew an alcoholics you would know the vast difference between what normal people worry is drinking too much and what an alcoholic puts away. Are you claiming cannabis and tobacco are harmless now Jeez. I think a lot of it is down to perspective and what we have witnessed in life. Someone raised by a habitual drunk who regularly beat his wife and kids and who eventually died of liver disease, whilst only ever seeing pot smokers being happy, is going to have a very different perspective to someone who has only ever known happy sensible drinkers but who has lost their brother to suicide resulting from cannabis induced psychosis. Perspective can be informed by such personal experiences and can inform where we are coming from but it does need to be superseded by logical thinking so we are not driven by emotion. One of my friends is a lifelong teetotaller having been raised by a couple of drunks. He smoked pot instead for a time but has long since given that up now. He absolutely hates alcohol and drunk people. The point got lost in the emotion here. Monte wrote: Yet millions smoke it regularly every week and our asylums are not filling up with cannabis victims.
Our rehabs are filling up with alcoholics needing psychiatric therapy though.The implication that I was playing down the dangers of alcohol. I wished to point out that I was all too aware. (Not to compete on tragic stories) But the main point is that most people do not choose between alcohol and drugs, they do both doubling the danger. Also The damage from alcohol is slow and accumulative and can be reversed. The damage from cannabis is invisible and irreversible. 99% of people who drink regularly are nowhere near alcoholism or the damage it does. We have no reliable information on the brain damage done by smoking cannabis. We are just learning how bad it can be, so not a good time legalise it.
|
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,702
|
Post by Steve on Sept 2, 2024 11:08:46 GMT
Going to be hard to find objective comparisons. Taking cannabis once a month sounds like a light user to me. One of the big differences between alcohol and cannabis is I suggest most alcohol users drink because they like the taste and most cannabis users because they like the effect. The latter is certainly true of cannabis users. But drinking alcohol for the taste is often an acquired taste that comes in later life. Most people I have ever known drink alcohol for the effect too, though not necessarily getting blind drunk, but often enough just to feel mellow. . . Maybe that's just the ones you noticed most. While I've known a few heavy drinkers incl two I worked with I'd say were alcoholics, they are the ones I remember and who knows how many hundreds maybe thousands of people I've known that drink. The ONS tells us that ~30 million adults in the UK drink and only about a third of them ever drink the equivalent of 3 pints or more at a time link.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2024 12:01:50 GMT
The latter is certainly true of cannabis users. But drinking alcohol for the taste is often an acquired taste that comes in later life. Most people I have ever known drink alcohol for the effect too, though not necessarily getting blind drunk, but often enough just to feel mellow. . . Maybe that's just the ones you noticed most. While I've known a few heavy drinkers incl two I worked with I'd say were alcoholics, they are the ones I remember and who knows how many hundreds maybe thousands of people I've known that drink. The ONS tells us that ~30 million adults in the UK drink and only about a third of them ever drink the equivalent of 3 pints or more at a time link. That still means ten million or more do drink three pints or more at a time. But many of the latter will still not be alcoholics, though drinking to excess is still problematic behaviour. Quite a lot of people who drink very little might occasionally drink more on infrequent occasions like office parties or wedding receptions. I have known people who I have only ever seen drunk at such rare occasions. The last time I had too much to drink was at a wedding reception actually, but that was probably ten years ago now. Actual alcoholics tend to come in one of two main categories - constant drinkers and binge drinkers. The latter can go many days at a time, even longer sometimes, without drinking any alcohol at all but then go on a total binge.
|
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,702
|
Post by Steve on Sept 2, 2024 12:14:45 GMT
I agree that drinking to excess is a problem. But it's readily detectable (on the breath), consumption of skunk cannabis orally is not.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2024 14:28:29 GMT
I agree that drinking to excess is a problem. But it's readily detectable (on the breath), consumption of skunk cannabis orally is not. A difference that doesn't matter. If someone's driving is erratic due to driving under the influence of either, the police will pull them over well before they have had the chance to smell anything. And they are trained to spot the telltale signs of someone being stoned, regardless of smell, though if they or any passengers have been smoking it in the car the car will stink of it. If the driving is erratic in such a way as to suggest some form of intoxication, first thing the police will do is breathalyse them regardless of whether they can smell alcohol on their breath, because ciders, beers and lagers tend to disappear from your breath after about 30 mins but you can still be drunk. If in spite of your obviously erratic driving suggestive of intoxication, the police find no evidence of alcohol consumption, they will immediately suspect some other drug has been consumed and will carry out a drug test. Such tests are available now. At no point will the ability of the police to smell alcohol have been any kind of factor making much difference to the process, and as such is the feeblest of straws to clutch at if this is what your double standard re alcohol versus cannabis rests on.
|
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,702
|
Post by Steve on Sept 2, 2024 16:15:46 GMT
I'm referring to stopping them getting in the drivers seat in the first place.
And I say again: the police cannot smell cannabis taken orally
|
|
|
Post by dappy on Sept 2, 2024 16:53:03 GMT
Police very rarely intercept a drunk intended driver before he has started driving Steve.
Legalisation of alcohol and cannabis are two unrelated issues. If alcohol was a relatively new product and we knew its effects, it would almost certainly be banned. Reality is though it is far too ubiquitous and engrained in our society to make that a remotely realistic political option.
We do have a political choice whether or not to legalise cannabis. Can’t honestly say this is a question that interests me hugely. While I lean towards legalisation, I am more of a floating voter prepared to listen to the arguments for and against if ever I was required to make a decision. The merits and demerits of alcohol would not form part of that decision making thought process.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2024 17:31:59 GMT
Very sorry to hear about your sister, Zany
|
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,702
|
Post by Steve on Sept 2, 2024 18:11:15 GMT
Police very rarely intercept a drunk intended driver before he has started driving Steve. . . Well no shit Sherlock Dappy As was clear when I first made this point, I'm referring to friends and colleagues etc and of course bar staff intervening to get Mr/Ms Stinks of Booze not to get in the car.
|
|