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Post by dappy on Jun 13, 2024 21:07:29 GMT
I didn’t insult you Zany. I just suggested you may have been taken in by a very sophisticated campaign of lies by people with an agenda.
Your analogy was frankly so exaggerated as to be meaningless. It would be the equivalent of the UK having a population of 1.2bn. There isn’t much point discussing it in my honest view.
I did answer your direct question.
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Post by montegriffo on Jun 13, 2024 21:51:18 GMT
And make up your mind, are they working in vape shops and takeaways or the NHS? Our public sector is no more expensive than any other 1st world country. Not sure we could attract skilled workers on temporary visas, might be worth a try. But they would still require the services of a first world country with first world working conditions etc. Mostly, they either work in the public (clown) sector, open kebab shops or move into criminality. Why the hell are we importing people to convert all the fish and chip shops in our cities into kebab shops? What is the strategy here? Perhaps you are unaware that the tradition of eating battered fish was introduced to this country by Jewish immigrants from Spain and Portugal in the 19th century.
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Post by Zany on Jun 13, 2024 21:51:35 GMT
I didn’t insult you Zany. I just suggested you may have been taken in by a very sophisticated campaign of lies by people with an agenda. Your analogy was frankly so exaggerated as to be meaningless. It would be the equivalent of the UK having a population of 1.2bn. There isn’t much point discussing it in my honest view. I did answer your direct question. The numbers were to demonstrate a infinity of your method. They were an analogy not an example. Your maths is crap as well, I made to island small to try and get you to see there was a point at which population size matters more than taxation per head. What was the answer to my direct question. What is your maximum population for the UK. A link to where you wrote it will do.
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Post by Zany on Jun 13, 2024 21:54:25 GMT
Mostly, they either work in the public (clown) sector, open kebab shops or move into criminality. Why the hell are we importing people to convert all the fish and chip shops in our cities into kebab shops? What is the strategy here? Perhaps you are unaware that the tradition of eating battered fish was introduced to this country by Jewish immigrants from Spain and Portugal in the 19th century. I didn't know that.
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Post by montegriffo on Jun 13, 2024 22:22:44 GMT
Perhaps you are unaware that the tradition of eating battered fish was introduced to this country by Jewish immigrants from Spain and Portugal in the 19th century. I didn't know that. Just as much a product of immigration as the kebab shops Orac is so afraid of.
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Post by Orac on Jun 13, 2024 23:24:35 GMT
As you admitted, we don't need to attract 'skilled workers' - we don't have much in the way of manufacturing and the people we are importing, on the whole don't have any skills - many barely have English. The jobs these people are (on the whole) doing are not skilled. Mostly, they either work in the public (clown) sector, open kebab shops or move into criminality. Why the hell are we importing people to convert all the fish and chip shops in our cities into kebab shops? What is the strategy here? 45% is outrageous - considering the Soviet Union itself never managed 100% Who are you arguing with? I don't want any more immigrants either. Though I don't brand them as you do. 45% is less than most, which you've edited away. I didn't 'edit it away' it's just not pertinent to my point or really of much interest to me. You have now spent three post focusing on my use of the one word 'bloated'. 45% is bloated to a scam, but my point was elsewhere,
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Post by Orac on Jun 13, 2024 23:31:30 GMT
Mostly, they either work in the public (clown) sector, open kebab shops or move into criminality. Why the hell are we importing people to convert all the fish and chip shops in our cities into kebab shops? What is the strategy here? Perhaps you are unaware that the tradition of eating battered fish was introduced to this country by Jewish immigrants from Spain and Portugal in the 19th century. Perhaps you missed my point - If virtually nobody would pay (or vote) to have this transformation done, why are we importing people to do it? I am making a claim about the low quality of their contribution - ie work in the public (clown) sector, open kebab shops or move into criminality
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jun 13, 2024 23:42:40 GMT
. . Why the hell are we importing people to convert all the fish and chip shops in our cities into kebab shops? . . Urban myth alert ^
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Post by montegriffo on Jun 14, 2024 0:04:22 GMT
Perhaps you are unaware that the tradition of eating battered fish was introduced to this country by Jewish immigrants from Spain and Portugal in the 19th century. Perhaps you missed my point - If virtually nobody would pay (or vote) to have this transformation done, why are we importing people to do it? I am making a claim about the low quality of their contribution - ie work in the public (clown) sector, open kebab shops or move into criminalityDon't be such a snob. Kebab shops are opening because they are popular, they provide a service that there is a demand for. My father worked for the Crown his whole life as a radar technician and as an officer of Her Majesty's Customs and Excise. I resent the implication that he was a clown. Immigrants become criminals is a racist trope unsupported by the evidence which shows that immigrants are less likely to break the law and illegal immigrants less likely still.
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Post by montegriffo on Jun 14, 2024 0:19:41 GMT
. . Why the hell are we importing people to convert all the fish and chip shops in our cities into kebab shops? . . Urban myth alert ^ They're as bad as them Jews coming over here from Spain and Portugal replacing all our jellied eel and pie and mash shops with their foreign fish and chips.
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Post by Orac on Jun 14, 2024 7:28:26 GMT
Perhaps you missed my point - If virtually nobody would pay (or vote) to have this transformation done, why are we importing people to do it? I am making a claim about the low quality of their contribution - ie work in the public (clown) sector, open kebab shops or move into criminalityDon't be such a snob. Kebab shops are opening because they are popular, they provide a service that there is a demand for. You seem to misunderstand my point and the reality of the situation. Firstly, the appearance of kebab shops was not because the British people had some unfulfilled yearning for grilled meat and bread, but didn't have the recipe and so decided to import people from the middle east to provide it. Grilled meat and bread probably appeared in the UK sometime shortly after the advent of agriculture - not quite the stone age, but quite a considerable time ago. Kebab shops appeared and replaced fish and chip shops because so many people were imported from the middle east that entire regions of England were effectively ethnically / culturally cleansed and so there was no need for fish and chip shops. My point was - who ordered / needed this transformation? It certainly wasn't the British people
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Post by Zany on Jun 14, 2024 7:36:02 GMT
Who are you arguing with? I don't want any more immigrants either. Though I don't brand them as you do. 45% is less than most, which you've edited away. I didn't 'edit it away' it's just not pertinent to my point or really of much interest to me. You have now spent three post focusing on my use of the one word 'bloated'. 45% is bloated to a scam, but my point was elsewhere, Nice try. Your claim is that our government is wasteful and bloated. I provide evidence that is not so, you remove it. Where is the evidence to support your claim.
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Post by Zany on Jun 14, 2024 7:44:17 GMT
Don't be such a snob. Kebab shops are opening because they are popular, they provide a service that there is a demand for. You seem to misunderstand my point and the reality of the situation. Firstly, the appearance of kebab shops was not because the British people had some unfulfilled yearning for grilled meat and bread, but didn't have the recipe and so decided to import people from the middle east to provide it. Grilled meat and bread probably appeared in the UK sometime shortly after the advent of agriculture - not quite the stone age, but quite a considerable time ago. Kebab shops appeared and replaced fish and chip shops because so many people were imported from the middle east that entire regions of England were effectively ethnically / culturally cleansed and so there was no need for fish and chip shops. My point was - who ordered / needed this transformation? It certainly wasn't the British people There is no shortage of fish and chip shops. kebab shops do better where there is late night traffic because the product is cheaper and that is what the market desires.
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Post by equivocal on Jun 14, 2024 7:59:39 GMT
Away from Dappy's island, the ONS has a forecasting tool (link above) based on the projection shown below.
The dependency ratio in 2016 was 305 pensioners to 1,000 working population. The tool, before any user adjustment, shows that by 2042 the 305 moves to 367.. By adjusting net migration I estimated that for each 100,000 increase in net migration the dependency rate (305 or 367) decreases by about 6.
The figure required for net migration to maintain the dependency rate at 305 is therefore a change from the starting figure of 165,000 to 1,165,000.
I don't know how the model works, but if it (the 1.165m) is straight substitution for the 165,000 shown in the spreadsheet, to maintain the dependency ratio an additional 18,000,000 would need to be added to the 2042 projection of 73m, a total of 91,000,000. If the model includes a straight line increase in net migration the figure of 18,000,000 is halved to 9,000,000 or a population of 82m. I can't see either figure being sustainable.
If anyone has the time, perhaps they could check my arithmetic.
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Post by Orac on Jun 14, 2024 8:03:38 GMT
I didn't 'edit it away' it's just not pertinent to my point or really of much interest to me. You have now spent three post focusing on my use of the one word 'bloated'. 45% is bloated to a scam, but my point was elsewhere, Nice try. Your claim is that our government is wasteful and bloated. I provide evidence that is not so, you remove it. Where is the evidence to support your claim. That wasn't my point. You have diverted the conversation into your administrative state hobby-horse
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