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Post by RedRum on Jun 8, 2024 8:24:02 GMT
16 year olds are the target cohort, 13 year olds are not. It is not me that is setting the limit. I would think and it is only my opinion that given the information that is available to this cohort and the fact that they are eligible for taxes is the reason "Children cannot start any full time work until they reach the minimum school leaving age. Once they do, UK child employment laws allow them to work up to a maximum of forty (40) hours a week. As an employer, you may need to pay them through the PAYE system once they turn sixteen (16) years old." . A 14 year old can work 12 hours a week and contributes to the economy and taxation. When I joined this thread your argument was not (because Labour say 16) it was because 16 year olds pay taxes. Beyond that its down to whether you think 16 is mature enough to understand the long term consequences of your decisions. My experience is that they don't. They can be taught but they aren't. That's fair enough our opinions differ, I have worked with plenty of 16 year olds that I consider mentally agile enough to vote for a representative in parliament and I have worked with plenty of adults who are not. Working 12 hours is not full time work and the pay therefore is highly unlikely to come into a taxation bracket. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on Jun 8, 2024 8:26:12 GMT
So Red Rum you feel that ALL 16 year olds can have a vote to determine my future but NONE of them can be held fully responsible should they kill someone.
Plural standards at work
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Post by Orac on Jun 8, 2024 8:35:49 GMT
The notion of allowing sixteen-year-olds to vote is absurd, whether they pay taxes or not.
Arguments like "I consider them mentally agile enough" are not very convincing. if you are arguing in favor, of course you do.
What the the left are seeking is a situation in which children are politically indoctrinated in schools and then that indoctrination has political consequences before the rest of society gets a chance to correct and mend the mind-washing. It's 'the usual dishonesty' - ie to attack you and your family through a manipulated proxy. I very much agree with Zany's sentiment that the voting age should raised to about 25
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Post by RedRum on Jun 8, 2024 9:55:58 GMT
So Red Rum you feel that ALL 16 year olds can have a vote to determine my future but NONE of them can be held fully responsible should they kill someone. Plural standards at work Again, when did I say that? Your argument is based on attempting to make me contradict myself, I have said from he start those that commit crimes should be punished within the laws at this time. I fully agreed with the bulger killers sentencing and do not believe they should be released. This board has been good but you are introducing a little bit of silliness in your attempts to wind me up, please stop. We disagree lets leave it at that. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on Jun 8, 2024 13:05:51 GMT
See Jun 1, 2024 at 2:51pm
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Post by Zany on Jun 8, 2024 14:52:48 GMT
A 14 year old can work 12 hours a week and contributes to the economy and taxation. When I joined this thread your argument was not (because Labour say 16) it was because 16 year olds pay taxes. Beyond that its down to whether you think 16 is mature enough to understand the long term consequences of your decisions. My experience is that they don't. They can be taught but they aren't. That's fair enough our opinions differ, I have worked with plenty of 16 year olds that I consider mentally agile enough to vote for a representative in parliament and I have worked with plenty of adults who are not. Working 12 hours is not full time work and the pay therefore is highly unlikely to come into a taxation bracket. Re- Taxation. They pay tax on everything they buy, they are not gifted the money, they earn it. Therefore the contribute tax into the economy. |
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Post by RedRum on Jun 8, 2024 16:38:39 GMT
See Jun 1, 2024 at 2:51pm Nothing contradictory there, why do you like to play childish games. You have a point, I disagree with it, get over it. |
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Post by RedRum on Jun 8, 2024 16:40:14 GMT
That's fair enough our opinions differ, I have worked with plenty of 16 year olds that I consider mentally agile enough to vote for a representative in parliament and I have worked with plenty of adults who are not. Working 12 hours is not full time work and the pay therefore is highly unlikely to come into a taxation bracket. Re- Taxation. They pay tax on everything they buy, they are not gifted the money, they earn it. Therefore the contribute tax into the economy. How does a 5 year old 'earn' money'? This is now getting silly. |
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Post by Zany on Jun 8, 2024 18:24:58 GMT
Re- Taxation. They pay tax on everything they buy, they are not gifted the money, they earn it. Therefore the contribute tax into the economy. How does a 5 year old 'earn' money'? This is now getting silly. 5 would be silly but I said 14 |
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Post by RedRum on Jun 9, 2024 7:03:25 GMT
How does a 5 year old 'earn' money'? This is now getting silly. 5 would be silly but I said 14 14 year olds are not legally allowed to have a full time job. |
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Post by Zany on Jun 9, 2024 7:24:04 GMT
5 would be silly but I said 14 14 year olds are not legally allowed to have a full time job. Yes, which I said in my post. They are allowed to work up to 12 hours. But they do earn their own money and therefore they do pay tax. The argument that if you contribute you should get a vote doesn't stand. However you still have the argument that at 16-18 you are informed enough to vote. |
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Post by RedRum on Jun 9, 2024 8:59:02 GMT
14 year olds are not legally allowed to have a full time job. Yes, which I said in my post. They are allowed to work up to 12 hours. But they do earn their own money and therefore they do pay tax. The argument that if you contribute you should get a vote doesn't stand. However you still have the argument that at 16-18 you are informed enough to vote. But we are discussing 'when' they should be able to vote and my opinion is that when they are eligible to pay income tax and they have left school they should be able to. Whether or not a 14 year old pays VAT for I doubt they would pay income tax, is immaterial. It is Steve that brought up the ridiculous idea of 5yo's paying VAT in an attempt to make me look silly, bad form really. Some 16-18 year olds are far more savvy that a lot of adults who, quite honestly, should know better. |
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Post by Zany on Jun 9, 2024 9:02:18 GMT
Yes, which I said in my post. They are allowed to work up to 12 hours. But they do earn their own money and therefore they do pay tax. The argument that if you contribute you should get a vote doesn't stand. However you still have the argument that at 16-18 you are informed enough to vote. But we are discussing 'when' they should be able to vote and my opinion is that when they are eligible to pay income tax and they have left school they should be able to. Whether or not a 14 year old pays VAT for I doubt they would pay income tax, is immaterial. It is Steve that brought up the ridiculous idea of 5yo's paying VAT in an attempt to make me look silly, bad form really. Some 16-18 year olds are far more savvy that a lot of adults who, quite honestly, should know better. So would you exclude those who don't pay income tax? That would be the logical conclusion to this argument. |
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Post by RedRum on Jun 9, 2024 9:48:00 GMT
But we are discussing 'when' they should be able to vote and my opinion is that when they are eligible to pay income tax and they have left school they should be able to. Whether or not a 14 year old pays VAT for I doubt they would pay income tax, is immaterial. It is Steve that brought up the ridiculous idea of 5yo's paying VAT in an attempt to make me look silly, bad form really. Some 16-18 year olds are far more savvy that a lot of adults who, quite honestly, should know better. So would you exclude those who don't pay income tax? That would be the logical conclusion to this argument. No, I am saying that if they are eligible to pay income tax, they should be able vote. I can see another 'gotcha' on the way. Paying income tax and being eligible to pay income tax are two different things. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on Jun 9, 2024 10:05:24 GMT
. . .It is Steve that brought up the ridiculous idea of 5yo's paying VAT in an attempt to make me look silly, bad form really. Some 16-18 year olds are far more savvy that a lot of adults who, quite honestly, should know better. No RR you brought up the idea of 'anyone that pays tax must have the vote' I gave you a valid test example of a 5 year old paying VAT that showed how ridiculous your idea was and then you started swerving all over the place. Get over it. |
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