Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
|
Post by Steve on Jun 9, 2024 10:11:59 GMT
Yes, which I said in my post. They are allowed to work up to 12 hours. But they do earn their own money and therefore they do pay tax. The argument that if you contribute you should get a vote doesn't stand. However you still have the argument that at 16-18 you are informed enough to vote. But we are discussing 'when' they should be able to vote and my opinion is that when they are eligible to pay income tax and they have left school they should be able to. Whether or not a 14 year old pays VAT for I doubt they would pay income tax, is immaterial. . . yes they very much can pay income tax. Maybe you never heard of Emma Watson And here have an authoritative source on the point: www.performanceaccountancy.co.uk/yes-children-do-pay-tax/'There is a common misconception that children don’t have to pay tax on earnings and therefore tax returns are not done. Unfortunately, this is not the case, and the taxman wants to get his fair share of the child’s earnings.' |
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jun 9, 2024 11:16:39 GMT
So would you exclude those who don't pay income tax? That would be the logical conclusion to this argument. No, I am saying that if they are eligible to pay income tax, they should be able vote. I can see another 'gotcha' on the way. Paying income tax and being eligible to pay income tax are two different things. Indeed. That is the catch with your scheme. If people who contribute be allowed to vote because they contribute, then people who don't should not (Awkward) And people who contribute more have an even bigger say (More awkward) Though I've always thought I should have at least a hundred votes, but that's just because I know best, not cause I pay more tax.  |
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jun 9, 2024 11:18:23 GMT
But we are discussing 'when' they should be able to vote and my opinion is that when they are eligible to pay income tax and they have left school they should be able to. Whether or not a 14 year old pays VAT for I doubt they would pay income tax, is immaterial. . . yes they very much can pay income tax. Maybe you never heard of Emma Watson And here have an authoritative source on the point: www.performanceaccountancy.co.uk/yes-children-do-pay-tax/'There is a common misconception that children don’t have to pay tax on earnings and therefore tax returns are not done. Unfortunately, this is not the case, and the taxman wants to get his fair share of the child’s earnings.'Agreed, though I was leaving that one as they rarely actually do, but we have to register all employees with HMRC regardless of age. |
|
|
|
Post by RedRum on Jun 9, 2024 12:12:02 GMT
But we are discussing 'when' they should be able to vote and my opinion is that when they are eligible to pay income tax and they have left school they should be able to. Whether or not a 14 year old pays VAT for I doubt they would pay income tax, is immaterial. . . yes they very much can pay income tax. Maybe you never heard of Emma Watson And here have an authoritative source on the point: www.performanceaccountancy.co.uk/yes-children-do-pay-tax/'There is a common misconception that children don’t have to pay tax on earnings and therefore tax returns are not done. Unfortunately, this is not the case, and the taxman wants to get his fair share of the child’s earnings.'My God, you are so desperate for a win, you really are petty, I thought we'd left this behind so here goes, you win, you are so much cleverer that I, happy? |
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
|
Post by Steve on Jun 9, 2024 12:33:29 GMT
Wasn't me that restarted it this morning with that 'It is Steve that brought up the ridiculous idea' dig at me this morning.
Don't throw rocks in ponds if you hate splashes.
|
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
|
Post by Steve on Jun 9, 2024 12:35:35 GMT
. . I've always thought I should have at least a hundred votes, . . Ah but if you did would you make them all for one party or distribute them proportional to the merit of each? |
|
|
|
Post by RedRum on Jun 9, 2024 12:45:31 GMT
Wasn't me that restarted it this morning with that 'It is Steve that brought up the ridiculous idea' dig at me this morning. Don't throw rocks in ponds if you hate splashes. You brought up the ridiculous idea of 5 year olds paying tax. You did forget to mention you were talking about 5yo's, though. "It is Steve that brought up the ridiculous idea of 5yo's paying VAT in an attempt to make me look silly, bad form really." You know exactly what is being said but decided to bring in daft examples in an attempt to ridicule. Whilst we are talking about children, if a parent gives a child money and that money earns more than £100 before tax in interest, then the whole amount (not just the amount over £100) is deemed to be the parent’s income. The parent will be taxed on it. This limit is just for parents and not other family members. If the £100 limit is likely to be breeched, then you may want to consider a tax free investment like a tax free Junior ISA. Always speak to a financial adviser about investments. From you own post. |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Jun 9, 2024 13:33:49 GMT
So would you exclude those who don't pay income tax? That would be the logical conclusion to this argument. No, I am saying that if they are eligible to pay income tax, they should be able vote. I can see another 'gotcha' on the way. Paying income tax and being eligible to pay income tax are two different things. You may feel a bit like you are tap-dancing on command.because you started with a conclusion and are now trying to work backwards to find arguments for it There is no reason 'eligibility to pay income tax' is really more meaningful in this context than 'paying income tax' . However, you want a particular conclusion and not another, so you have to keep on drawing distinctions and lines |
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jun 9, 2024 15:16:09 GMT
yes they very much can pay income tax. Maybe you never heard of Emma Watson And here have an authoritative source on the point: www.performanceaccountancy.co.uk/yes-children-do-pay-tax/'There is a common misconception that children don’t have to pay tax on earnings and therefore tax returns are not done. Unfortunately, this is not the case, and the taxman wants to get his fair share of the child’s earnings.'My God, you are so desperate for a win, you really are petty, I thought we'd left this behind so here goes, you win, you are so much cleverer that I, happy? Red, don't get skewered by Steve's pedantry. Its not malicious its just how he thinks. Steve the subject matter is whether 16 year olds should be allowed to vote. Do you have any views on this? |
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jun 9, 2024 15:19:06 GMT
. . I've always thought I should have at least a hundred votes, . . Ah but if you did would you make them all for one party or distribute them proportional to the merit of each? Voting is very private Steve. But truth is they'd all go for Emperor Zany. Trust me the world would be so much better.  |
|
|
|
Post by RedRum on Jun 9, 2024 16:34:33 GMT
No, I am saying that if they are eligible to pay income tax, they should be able vote. I can see another 'gotcha' on the way. Paying income tax and being eligible to pay income tax are two different things. You may feel a bit like you are tap-dancing on command.because you started with a conclusion and are now trying to work backwards to find arguments for it There is no reason 'eligibility to pay income tax' is really more meaningful in this context than 'paying income tax' . However, you want a particular conclusion and not another, so you have to keep on drawing distinctions and lines I have only said that there is a reasonable case for 16yo's to be able to vote given they are eligible to pay income tax, that is my opinion and I stand by it. Others have a different opinion, 18, 21, 25 and that is their opinion and they are perfectly entitled to hold that opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jun 9, 2024 17:30:26 GMT
You may feel a bit like you are tap-dancing on command.because you started with a conclusion and are now trying to work backwards to find arguments for it There is no reason 'eligibility to pay income tax' is really more meaningful in this context than 'paying income tax' . However, you want a particular conclusion and not another, so you have to keep on drawing distinctions and lines I have only said that there is a reasonable case for 16yo's to be able to vote given they are eligible to pay income tax, that is my opinion and I stand by it. Others have a different opinion, 18, 21, 25 and that is their opinion and they are perfectly entitled to hold that opinion. Yes Red, that's what we're debating. I know Labour would like it because the young tend to vote labour. |
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
|
Post by Steve on Jun 9, 2024 17:33:14 GMT
My God, you are so desperate for a win, you really are petty, I thought we'd left this behind so here goes, you win, you are so much cleverer that I, happy? Red, don't get skewered by Steve's pedantry. Its not malicious its just how he thinks. Steve the subject matter is whether 16 year olds should be allowed to vote. Do you have any views on this? Only if they accept full criminal responsibility |
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jun 9, 2024 17:52:12 GMT
Red, don't get skewered by Steve's pedantry. Its not malicious its just how he thinks. Steve the subject matter is whether 16 year olds should be allowed to vote. Do you have any views on this? Only if they accept full criminal responsibility Yep I'd agree with that. If they are old enough to understand the consequences of voting then the same goes for committing crime. |
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jun 9, 2024 17:53:58 GMT
Bit off topic, but we've run the course here I think.
How do you all feel about being allowed to vote on manifesto promises?
|
|
