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Post by Saint on Jul 1, 2024 7:04:33 GMT
My favourite was when GB News held a poll on the issue ... and lost! I think Labour are being too timid about re-joining the EU. The polls have been in favour of membership constantly since 2017. Agree. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 7:06:46 GMT
My favourite was when GB News held a poll on the issue ... and lost! I think Labour are being too timid about re-joining the EU. The polls have been in favour of membership constantly since 2017. Well when you look at the EU's recent scandals, you can see why they are ambivalent about going all-in for the EU, IMHO Don't forget there is probably a significant number of the base who are working-class fairly anti-EU and were pro-Corbyn partly because he was against the EU I don't think rejoining will be quick or easy and there will be penalties and punishment for rejoining, it won't be a simple process My argument for going all-in would be that the EU prevents world war and that's it - nothing fancy, flash or trying to mess with the truth or scaremonger about anything else - just a simple flat pointer to the reason for its founding, which absolutely is why it was created |
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Post by Zany on Jul 1, 2024 7:10:09 GMT
I have said for a considerable time that Farage was more interested in propping up a failing career than saving the British people, but I think your post will fall on deaf ears here. Oh, and welcome to the forum.  In which way was Farage's career failing prior to Brexit? I'm not trying to be argumentative - I'm asking because I'd like more info on that - and it might even help me make my argument more eloquently; more info is always good And thanks for the welcome, but don't welcome me too soon as I get banned from almost every forum I frequent, as Steve will tell you  We posted together for a time on the old PoFo UK board around 2016 I think [you and me] I don't mind disagreement or even anger. All we ask on here is that is content. So just not too much "Well you would say that because your a leftie/righty blah blah. " |
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Post by Zany on Jul 1, 2024 7:14:38 GMT
I think Labour are being too timid about re-joining the EU. The polls have been in favour of membership constantly since 2017. Well when you look at the EU's recent scandals, you can see why they are ambivalent about going all-in for the EU, IMHO Don't forget there is probably a significant number of the base who are working-class fairly anti-EU and were pro-Corbyn partly because he was against the EU I don't think rejoining will be quick or easy and there will be penalties and punishment for rejoining, it won't be a simple process My argument for going all-in would be that the EU prevents world war and that's it - nothing fancy, flash or trying to mess with the truth or scaremonger about anything else - just a simple flat pointer to the reason for its founding, which absolutely is why it was created For me the critical thing is that any negotiations are done before the vote. I think that would smooth the change back greatly. Having a referendum before knowing the deal was a huge mistake in referendum 1 |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 7:20:43 GMT
Everything about referendum 1 was a mistake, probably because it was fronted by the likes of David Cameron and George Osbourne, hence it was doomed from the start
Add to that David Cameron was a Brexiter most of his life and sabotage looks probable to my mind at least, they knew what it took to run a successful ref if you look at the AvRef in 2011, so while a bit conspiratorial on my part - I think there was some sabotage involved with Cameron and the Remain movement
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 7:24:39 GMT
I'm reading about Nigel Farage's past career and it does look like his most recent ventures in business ended in insolvency FT linkLink |
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Post by Zany on Jul 1, 2024 7:33:04 GMT
I'm reading about Nigel Farage's past career and it does look like his most recent ventures in business ended in insolvency FT linkLinkYou got it. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 1, 2024 12:59:57 GMT
I think Labour are being too timid about re-joining the EU. The polls have been in favour of membership constantly since 2017. Agree. You have to dig deeper. Those who feel we should never have left do not often make it there #1 issue so can be persuaded to vote for remain parties whereas those who favoured leaving often make it their most important consideration. As a result it would be electoral suicide for Labour right now to campaign on rejoining. But in 2029 . . . . . |
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Post by Saint on Jul 1, 2024 13:23:28 GMT
You have to dig deeper. Those who feel we should never have left do not often make it there #1 issue so can be persuaded to vote for remain parties whereas those who favoured leaving often make it their most important consideration. As a result it would be electoral suicide for Labour right now to campaign on rejoining. But in 2029 . . . . . Yeah, maybe so. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 1, 2024 13:55:01 GMT
You have to dig deeper. Those who feel we should never have left do not often make it there #1 issue so can be persuaded to vote for remain parties whereas those who favoured leaving often make it their most important consideration. As a result it would be electoral suicide for Labour right now to campaign on rejoining. But in 2029 . . . . . Good point. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 16:42:11 GMT
You have to dig deeper. Those who feel we should never have left do not often make it there #1 issue so can be persuaded to vote for remain parties whereas those who favoured leaving often make it their most important consideration. As a result it would be electoral suicide for Labour right now to campaign on rejoining. But in 2029 . . . . . That is essentially true right now. But it is also true that those who regard staying out of the EU as the number one issue are heavily concentrated in the more elderly cohorts of the population. As such, time is against them for obvious demographic reasons. The time will come when rejoining will become more of an electoral plus for the parties of the left and centre. The problem then of course - and it is at least a decade away, possibly two - is whether the EU will even want us back. In the meantime a growing majority of people now recognise or believe that Brexit has damaged us economically, particularly in terms of trade with our nearest neighbours. People will be willing to accept closer economic alignment with the EU if it reduces trade friction at the borders and if it does not include total freedom of movement. Any risk of cheap labour from Eastern Europe flooding the labour market will not be welcomed, though there might well be some willingness to allow in those prepared to work in the care sector for example. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 1, 2024 18:07:55 GMT
If Labour want to position for rejoining they will need to show the electorate two things: (a) that Brexit clearly isn't working and (b) that there is a reason for saying the 2016 vote was flawed.
Both would take time to show to the satisfaction of the majority of the electorate.
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Post by Grumpy Old Bloke on Jul 1, 2024 18:25:48 GMT
You have to dig deeper. Those who feel we should never have left do not often make it there #1 issue so can be persuaded to vote for remain parties whereas those who favoured leaving often make it their most important consideration. As a result it would be electoral suicide for Labour right now to campaign on rejoining. But in 2029 . . . . . By 2029 I predict that Labour will be struggling to hang on. Right now simply not being the Tories is probably going to be sufficient for them to win. But after July 4th they're going to actually have to deliver... Something. At which point it will become painfully apparent that they are functionally little different to the Tories.
And, with the way that the wind is blowing in the EU, it's doubtful that the EU that we left will still exist.
Dunno, maybe Starmer will want to join a right wing alliance but it doesn't seem likely to me.
I suspect that those pinning their hopes on rejoining are going to be disappointed.
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Post by Zany on Jul 1, 2024 18:30:00 GMT
You have to dig deeper. Those who feel we should never have left do not often make it there #1 issue so can be persuaded to vote for remain parties whereas those who favoured leaving often make it their most important consideration. As a result it would be electoral suicide for Labour right now to campaign on rejoining. But in 2029 . . . . . The polls say we are almost there now. Only 32% think Brexit was a good idea. From my info the EU do want us back and can't quite believe we left, they think we had a mental breakdown, But they want full commitment Would any flood of workers from Eastern Europe come anywhere near close to the 600k plus immigrants we bought here instead. And do we need all those workers hmmm feel another thread forming |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 18:38:15 GMT
You have to dig deeper. Those who feel we should never have left do not often make it there #1 issue so can be persuaded to vote for remain parties whereas those who favoured leaving often make it their most important consideration. As a result it would be electoral suicide for Labour right now to campaign on rejoining. But in 2029 . . . . . By 2029 I predict that Labour will be struggling to hang on. Right now simply not being the Tories is probably going to be sufficient for them to win. But after July 4th they're going to actually have to deliver... Something. At which point it will become painfully apparent that they are functionally little different to the Tories.
And, with the way that the wind is blowing in the EU, it's doubtful that the EU that we left will still exist.
Dunno, maybe Starmer will want to join a right wing alliance but it doesn't seem likely to me.
I suspect that those pinning their hopes on rejoining are going to be disappointed.
Even right wing parties are no longer anti-EU on the Continent and mostly want to take over the EU from within, only Geert Wilders' PVV want to actually destroy the EU from within - the others want to make it a right wing project instead I hope you are right about Labour and a new party forms instead to replace the ground they formerly occupied |
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