RedRum
Full Member
"Smaller in number are we, but larger in mind.”
Posts: 245
|
Rwanda
Apr 23, 2024 13:15:21 GMT
Post by RedRum on Apr 23, 2024 13:15:21 GMT
Rishi's last chance at attempting to save his premiership and the Tory party.
I wonder if any flights will take off?
|
|
|
Rwanda
Apr 23, 2024 14:31:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by walterpaisley on Apr 23, 2024 14:31:17 GMT
Personally, I was past caring months ago.
It's such a patently ridiculous stunt, and has been arrived at through such desperately underhand means, and at such eye-watering expense, that its brief lifespan will serve only to be the epitaph on Mr Sunak's political tombstone.
Upwards of half a billion to swap (remember - it's a reciprocal arrangement) a few dozen low-hanging fruit with Rwanda?
Pure Thick of It stuff.
Open the embassies and consulates for prospective asylum seekers to make their applications in country, and think how much time and effort could've been saved, with greater effect.
Still - MEA (daughter of refugees herself..) reports that she watched GB News over breakfast today, and it's gone down well with the (at least those undemanding and non-analytic members of the group, I guess..) swivel-eyed loony contingent.
|
|
|
Rwanda
Apr 23, 2024 14:36:13 GMT
Post by sheepy on Apr 23, 2024 14:36:13 GMT
I would take a guess this political stunt has gone on for years and the first flights won't be able to take off until after an election victory.
|
|
|
Post by dappy on Apr 23, 2024 14:42:45 GMT
My guess is that they will get the odd flight away. Complete waste of money designed entirely to seek to secure the vote of the likes of Red Rackham and co. trouble is those gullible fools will always demand a little more - so if we were to reintroduce the death penalty for anyone arriving here by irregular means, Red would start demanding that we drew and quartered them too.
|
|
RedRum
Full Member
"Smaller in number are we, but larger in mind.”
Posts: 245
|
Rwanda
Apr 23, 2024 14:42:55 GMT
Post by RedRum on Apr 23, 2024 14:42:55 GMT
The funniest thing is, if anything is funny about this, that we have to provide Rwanda with the immigrants details before they will accept them. In other words we will have to process them first, shouldn't we be doing that anyway and returning those that don't have a valid claim?
We used to return migrants to their home countries if the failed the processing system. that is before the Tories started their cuts.
|
|
|
Rwanda
Apr 23, 2024 14:47:57 GMT
Post by sheepy on Apr 23, 2024 14:47:57 GMT
It wasn't even much of a guess, because the media were reporting Rishi is trying to finish what Boris started and would people believe him.
|
|
|
Rwanda
Apr 23, 2024 14:55:27 GMT
Post by equivocal on Apr 23, 2024 14:55:27 GMT
Personally, I was past caring months ago. It's such a patently ridiculous stunt, and has been arrived at through such desperately underhand means, and at such eye-watering expense, that its brief lifespan will serve only to be the epitaph on Mr Sunak's political tombstone. Upwards of half a billion to swap (remember - it's a reciprocal arrangement) a few dozen low-hanging fruit with Rwanda? Pure Thick of It stuff. Open the embassies and consulates for prospective asylum seekers to make their applications in country, and think how much time and effort could've been saved, with greater effect. Still - MEA (daughter of refugees herself..) reports that she watched GB News over breakfast today, and it's gone down well with the (at least those undemanding and non-analytic members of the group, I guess..) swivel-eyed loony contingent. Its lifespan may be brief but the damage it has caused to our constitutional settlement may last rather longer.
Any future finding that the 'Government' has acted unlawfully may, or so it seems, be remedied by legislating that black is white or vice versa.
|
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,591
|
Rwanda
Apr 23, 2024 15:03:08 GMT
Post by Steve on Apr 23, 2024 15:03:08 GMT
Rishi's made a mistake bullying this through Parliament. Not only has it shown he's a failed leader his timing is awful. He will likely get a flight or two away before summer is out but then some of those sent there will deliberately commit a serious crime just to trigger the clause that says we then have to accept them back.
And while yesterday he could (falsely) blame Labour he very much won't be able to by then.
|
|
Saint
Observer
Posts: 1,169
|
Rwanda
May 1, 2024 9:43:20 GMT
Post by Saint on May 1, 2024 9:43:20 GMT
I notice there's a certain amount of glee at the other place about migrants crossing the border from NI into the Irish Republic. Apparently, the government has said it won't accept them back into the UK. If the Irish want to be difficult about it, couldn't they just issue those immigrants with Irish passports, allowing them to return to the UK through the common travel area?
|
|
|
Rwanda
May 3, 2024 8:34:17 GMT
Post by Zany on May 3, 2024 8:34:17 GMT
I notice there's a certain amount of glee at the other place about migrants crossing the border from NI into the Irish Republic. Apparently, the government has said it won't accept them back into the UK. If the Irish want to be difficult about it, couldn't they just issue those immigrants with Irish passports, allowing them to return to the UK through the common travel area? TBH. I share the glee to an extent. I am definitely of the view that they should be allowed to claim asylum in any country they wish and therefore France should not take them back, but then neither should the UK. That these economic migrants choose the UK because they speak English has been ignored by the EU, now Ireland is suffering the same issue.
|
|
|
Post by dappy on May 3, 2024 9:31:57 GMT
I think there is some deliberate obscuring of the story by the usual media outlets, Zany.
There are two related but different stories here.
1) there are small numbers of cases where people claiming asylum are passed between countries - eg where they have first made a claim in country A and then also made a claim in country B. B will usually then return them to A for their claim to be determined. To do so though in most cases , the law in B will be that B can only do that if it judges A a safe country. In UK and Ireland case, the Irish Supreme Court ruled that the UK is not a safe country (how shameful is that?) and it is that matter the Irish government is seeking to address
2) meanwhile it seems that a significant proportion of those claiming asylum in Ireland arrive via Northern Ireland. While it is a bit of a mystery how they managed to get themselves to Northern Ireland - the Irish Sea is not easy to cross- their claim to asylum is valid in Ireland if they haven’t claimed say here previously. Some idiots there shout “send them back to UK” just as some idiots here shout “send them back to France” but in both cases they are just grandstanding.
|
|
Saint
Observer
Posts: 1,169
|
Rwanda
May 3, 2024 11:38:15 GMT
Post by Saint on May 3, 2024 11:38:15 GMT
I notice there's a certain amount of glee at the other place about migrants crossing the border from NI into the Irish Republic. Apparently, the government has said it won't accept them back into the UK. If the Irish want to be difficult about it, couldn't they just issue those immigrants with Irish passports, allowing them to return to the UK through the common travel area? TBH. I share the glee to an extent. I am definitely of the view that they should be allowed to claim asylum in any country they wish and therefore France should not take them back, but then neither should the UK. That these economic migrants choose the UK because they speak English has been ignored by the EU, now Ireland is suffering the same issue. I think every country should take its fair share. But hasn't Ireland been very generous in this regard? I believe that the population has exploded in recent years, going from practically having no non-indigenous to having one fifth of its population made up of newcomers. But that wasn't really my point. The point is that there is a simple fix available to the Irish if they wish to play dirty.
|
|
|
Rwanda
May 3, 2024 12:07:35 GMT
Post by Zany on May 3, 2024 12:07:35 GMT
I think there is some deliberate obscuring of the story by the usual media outlets, Zany. There are two related but different stories here. 1) there are small numbers of cases where people claiming asylum are passed between countries - eg where they have first made a claim in country A and then also made a claim in country B. B will usually then return them to A for their claim to be determined. To do so though in most cases , the law in B will be that B can only do that if it judges A a safe country. In UK and Ireland case, the Irish Supreme Court ruled that the UK is not a safe country (how shameful is that?) and it is that matter the Irish government is seeking to address 2) meanwhile it seems that a significant proportion of those claiming asylum in Ireland arrive via Northern Ireland. While it is a bit of a mystery how they managed to get themselves to Northern Ireland - the Irish Sea is not easy to cross- their claim to asylum is valid in Ireland if they haven’t claimed say here previously. Some idiots there shout “send them back to UK” just as some idiots here shout “send them back to France” but in both cases they are just grandstanding. Yes I was familiar with Irelands calling us unsafe because of the risk of deportation to an unsafe country. The irony to those who are against the EU is that they refused to deal with asylum seekers travelling through France to get to the UK. That they did little to move those camped along the coast awaiting their boats and only try to tackle the problem as a asylum seekers and economic migrants attempt to leave. That those same asylum seekers and economic migrants are now reappearing in an EU country does seem like poetic justice. As for how they cross the Irish sea, there is no requirement to show a passport on a UK inter island ferry. Most of those entering Ireland will not have been processed and are therefore still asylum seekers.
|
|
|
Rwanda
May 3, 2024 12:20:55 GMT
Post by Zany on May 3, 2024 12:20:55 GMT
TBH. I share the glee to an extent. I am definitely of the view that they should be allowed to claim asylum in any country they wish and therefore France should not take them back, but then neither should the UK. That these economic migrants choose the UK because they speak English has been ignored by the EU, now Ireland is suffering the same issue. I think every country should take its fair share. But hasn't Ireland been very generous in this regard? I believe that the population has exploded in recent years, going from practically having no non-indigenous to having one fifth of its population made up of newcomers. But that wasn't really my point. The point is that there is a simple fix available to the Irish if they wish to play dirty. So do I saint as I think you know. I think the problem comes in attitude, for a while before we left the EU the attitude of the commission leant more towards accepting refugees at their word and assimilating them equally across the EU. Rather than the laborious task of researching each individual claim. The problem is that with FoM it was easy for these new citizens of the EU to move to the country that spoke the worlds language (English) to easier find work. Some measures were put in place to try and stop this happening but they were largely unsuccessful in that no one checks who is living or working where within the EU (That being the idea of the EU in the first place) As for Ireland taking refugees. The number appears high but 75% of those taken are from Ukraine which if I'm honest with myself is a very different thing to those escaping poverty and disease in mid and northern Africa. Both in ability to acclimatise and likelihood to return home after a few years. In reality what has happened is that the immense increase in those seeking to come to safe and wealthy first world countries has found our old systems wanting and we need a complete re-think on who we allow in and what constitutes asylum. (Should asylum now also include fear of starvation?)
|
|
Saint
Observer
Posts: 1,169
|
Rwanda
May 3, 2024 12:26:43 GMT
Post by Saint on May 3, 2024 12:26:43 GMT
I think every country should take its fair share. But hasn't Ireland been very generous in this regard? I believe that the population has exploded in recent years, going from practically having no non-indigenous to having one fifth of its population made up of newcomers. But that wasn't really my point. The point is that there is a simple fix available to the Irish if they wish to play dirty. So do I saint as I think you know. I think the problem comes in attitude, for a while before we left the EU the attitude of the commission leant more towards accepting refugees at their word and assimilating them equally across the EU. Rather than the laborious task of researching each individual claim. The problem is that with FoM it was easy for these new citizens of the EU to move to the country that spoke the worlds language (English) to easier find work. Some measures were put in place to try and stop this happening but they were largely unsuccessful in that no one checks who is living or working where within the EU (That being the idea of the EU in the first place) As for Ireland taking refugees. The number appears high but 75% of those taken are from Ukraine which if I'm honest with myself is a very different thing to those escaping poverty and disease in mid and northern Africa. Both in ability to acclimatise and likelihood to return home after a few years. In reality what has happened is that the immense increase in those seeking to come to safe and wealthy first world countries has found our old systems wanting and we need a complete re-think on who we allow in and what constitutes asylum. (Should asylum now also include fear of starvation?) I have to say my statistics come from the other place, which, as we all know, tend to be self-serving and somewhat distorted. My comment was aimed more at the naivety of the glee expressed at the other place. If the Irish wish to return these people to the UK, they can do so by the simple expedient of granting them Irish passports. The idea that the Irish have been check-mated is simply incorrect. Such of these immigrants as remain in Ireland remain purely on sufferance in the interests of continuing good relations with the UK, not by force of necessity.
|
|