Winter Fuel Allowance

As for having to pay £3k for private dentistry, millions of taxpayers who are funding winter fuel payments simply don't have that option because they do not have even a few hundred laying around let alone 12k.

The problem there of course isn't winter fuel payments nor savings thresholds at all, but the lack of NHS dentists, an entirely separate issue which needs to be addressed urgently.

I myself have to somehow pay for private dentistry due to lack of NHS dentists and my savings account has less than 2 quid in it!!!

A crusade by such Tory media organs on behalf of Tory-voting pensioners is unlikely to appeal much to progressive hearts like mine. The instinctive reaction I have to that is to want to dig my heals in against it. Fortunately though, I tend to try and avoid thinking with kneejerk emotions.

Whilst believing that it is senseless and unaffordable to give freebies to people who clearly dont need them, I acknowledge that the cut off point is low enough for some to struggle as a result. I have suggested ways of helping these and am open to other ideas. If some way of helping some of those who are just on the wrong side of the cut off point could be found it would be welcome, and probably good politics, so would not be surprised if something were pulled out of the hat in the autumn statement. But we shall see in due course.

I know how the party will be reacting behind the scenes. It employs a lot of fairly young, university educated twonks who run databases into which is fed any info gathered on the doorstep in regards to past voting patterns and present voting intentions. This is married up with demographic breakdowns of which sort of people tend to live where, with calculations as to how persuadable certain voters are and by what messages. Into all these data bases is fed input from focus groups made up of the kind of people who might be persuaded to vote Labour. The sort of people who don't make it onto a Labour focus group tend to be those who are regarded as unreconcilable to the party, who are written off as too hard to persuade. This probably includes many who have been long term Tory voters or who have backed Reform or who feel strongly on woke issues. Labour - informed by it's twonks - will have made a strategic decision on whose votes are winnable and who to go after. And there is every sign both in the Winter Fuel announcement and in their rhetoric about supporting working people, that they are going for the working age vote rather than the pensioner vote, probably because they have decided that this is potentially more fruitful territory for them.

When they announce something big and unexpected, they have almost invariably run it past their focus groups first to gauge their reactions. However these groups are made up and whatever was run by them, they must have concluded that amongst those whose votes they are after, the reaction was more positive than negative, or at least neutral.

And indeed, the vast majority of the sound and fury is coming from media elements and individuals who never vote Labour anyway, even on this forum. So cynical, yes in the extreme. The typical party centrist has no principle they won't trade for power. They have likely done this after a process of cold calculation.

Comparatively well off pensioners and their supporters seething with anger is probably drowning out a much quieter sense of approval from many younger working age people who are struggling and having to pay the taxes to support others. This is no doubt the calculation.

But no one wants to see genuinely struggling pensioners cast into fuel poverty, and focus groups will probably flag that up if it appears that too many who are not that well off are losing out. All the more so since most of those on these focus groups will include pensioners amongst their relatives. And they will know how genuinely struggling they may or may not be compared to themselves. Long and the short of it is if too many pensioners are hurt badly by this it could backfire. Which is why if this becomes a thing, Labour will amend the policy to help a few more of those who are not well off yet don't claim pension credit.

Understanding how they think and operate behind the scenes is a good guide to me in understanding what is actually likely to be going on

How can it be progressive to take the winter fuel payment from pensioners , while energy companies profits soar through the roof?

As usual , labour tackle the symptoms of the problem , rather than the root of the problem itself.

I would have a quiet sense of approval if labour stopped the three billion to Ukraine , gave the pensioners their fuel payment back , and started showing us some fucking progressive labour policies instead of red tory imitation policies?
 

Given that you don’t want WFA to be a universal benefit and given that there is no obvious measure of income/need for pensioners available to central government beyond pension credit, is it the case that the policy the government has adopted is the best one available Mr Benn?

well im exactly the same when folk witter on about "the poor". Many poor are undeserving of help , because they won't help themselves , and see benefits as a lifestyle choice , rather than a safety net for hard times. 

 
but thats exactly what my earlier article was talking about. Apparently its going to save 2billion , but how do you know its freebies being cut for those who dont need them when labour themselves haven't costed the impact , or told us how this is going to affect pensioners ? Further , why are we only talking about freebies to a small amount of pensioners as yet unquantified , but not talking about savings on  an even bigger amount of freebies to Ukraine  , or 5 times the amount of freebies to Africa regarding climate change?

 It really does seem selective , and thus makes people think it's all about envy of the elderly , who are not contrary to the perception of some all "well off". 5000 elderly died last year according to labour peer Prem Sikka WITH the winter fuel payment , how many more need to die this year ?

 Let me be clear Steve. I grew up in abject poverty. On a Glaswegian council estate. I dragged myself out of poverty , worked hard , and have done my best as I can in life from my lowly start.

 Please dont get me started on "the poor" as though they are one big homogenous block. Many of the "poor" are as undeserving , if not more , than rich pensioners you talk about for freebies . Leeches on society , who have no wish to contribute and merely wish to leech off those very same hard working taxpayers you talk about. 

Labour and their support can spin about rich pensioners not needing the winter fuel payment , but so far , it looks like a badly thought out policy , at the wrong time , for the starmer government , and everyone everywhere outside of the labour bubble is making capital out of it.

 long may it continue.