|
|
Post by brownlow on Jul 17, 2024 17:28:47 GMT
Giving up our own currency would be a red line for me. Might be different if the ECB weren't rabid austerians.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2024 19:51:35 GMT
I mean, a lot of countries gave up their currency and are prospering, such as Estonia etc
I'm not sure why everyone is so wedded to the currency, although it's good New Labour didn't adopt the euro at the time, it was good in hindsight, but now maybe things are different?
|
|
|
|
Post by brownlow on Jul 18, 2024 9:22:59 GMT
Because even if, one day, we elect a progressive government (I still live in hope), whoever issues the currency can impose austerity and privatisation.
"Let me issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws." - Mayer Rothschild
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jul 18, 2024 9:52:01 GMT
M The problem with the EU and their attitude, is that unless there is a law for something its illegal. Why does this nonsense keep getting repeated? You say the above again and again. It's completely wrong. It doesn't matter how often you're told that, you continue to say it. Would you lay out the reasoning for your ridiculous claim once and for all? |
|
|
|
Post by vinny on Jul 18, 2024 10:55:22 GMT
Giving up our own currency would be a red line for me. Might be different if the ECB weren't rabid austerians. I don't like the idea either. |
|
|
|
Post by vinny on Jul 18, 2024 10:59:34 GMT
I mean, a lot of countries gave up their currency and are prospering, such as Estonia etc I'm not sure why everyone is so wedded to the currency, although it's good New Labour didn't adopt the euro at the time, it was good in hindsight, but now maybe things are different? Without a sovereign currency you have no tools against recessions, because you cannot devalue, you cannot set your own interest rates, you're at the mercy of other countries. The only way it could work, is if the EU became ONE country with the same tax system across it all.
Same tax and spending rules for everyone.
But then the EU would need to become a hell of a lot more democratic and I cannot see that happening.
|
|
|
|
Post by Saint on Jul 18, 2024 12:15:14 GMT
But then the EU would need to become a hell of a lot more democratic and I cannot see that happening.
The EU is mostly concerned with standardising laws to facilitate trade. The question is: what laws in any particular area should be the standard law throughout the EU? Most EU member states will already have their own particular laws in particular areas. Trademark laws are an example. These were different in the different member states before standardisation. The thing is, nobody likes change. While everyone recognises that standardisation is necessary to the common economic good, every member state would rather that the laws that it already has became the standard throughout Europe. So, let's say that the law of contract is about to be standardised. Everyone recognises that will be a good thing, economically speaking. But EVERY SINGLE member state will hope that the new standardised law will be the same as the laws they already have or very close to it. That would cause the least disruption to business in that member state. At the moment, the Commission consults every member state and tries to come up with a compromise law of contract, etc. When the EU becomes more 'democratic', the laws that will be introduced will be those that suit the countries with the biggest voting share in the EU Parliament. The days of tireless Commission efforts to secure a compromise that suits everyone will be gone. The Commission has a world-wide reputation for writing solid workable laws. When the EU becomes 'democratic', the laws will become those that favour the biggest nations and cause them the least disruption. That's when the smaller nations will start leaving. |
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jul 18, 2024 20:05:35 GMT
I mean, a lot of countries gave up their currency and are prospering, such as Estonia etc I'm not sure why everyone is so wedded to the currency, although it's good New Labour didn't adopt the euro at the time, it was good in hindsight, but now maybe things are different? Yep. Currency is just a method of valuing your assets. Doesn't matter what name it has. |
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,367
|
Post by Steve on Jul 18, 2024 21:29:39 GMT
M The problem with the EU and their attitude, is that unless there is a law for something its illegal. Why does this nonsense keep getting repeated? You say the above again and again. It's completely wrong. It doesn't matter how often you're told that, you continue to say it. Would you lay out the reasoning for your ridiculous claim once and for all? It's all the uber Brexiters have got left, making up false 'look what we'll pretend we saved you from' stories. But then such was pretty much all they had in the first place |
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jul 18, 2024 21:33:15 GMT
Why does this nonsense keep getting repeated? You say the above again and again. It's completely wrong. It doesn't matter how often you're told that, you continue to say it. Would you lay out the reasoning for your ridiculous claim once and for all? It's all the uber Brexiters have got left, making up false 'look what we'll pretend we saved you from' stories. But then such was pretty much all they had in the first place But they were real good stories |
|
Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,367
|
Post by Steve on Jul 18, 2024 21:36:53 GMT
Nope, they were snake oil.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zany on Jul 18, 2024 21:39:14 GMT
Nope, they were snake oil. They were stories, fables. Happy ever afters |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2024 3:37:31 GMT
It seems to me Saint as well as vinny and brownlow make compelling points tbh, good arguments both for and against it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Amadan on Jul 19, 2024 6:02:00 GMT
It seems to me Saint a well as svinny and brownlow make compelling points tbh, good arguments both for and against it I don't think Vinny has made a compelling argument in his life. The majority are so full of holes and contradictions it's unbelievable the rubbish he comes out with at times. To move back to the EU argument , there are so many things to consider , so many pros and cons , its why I think there should be a second referendum , with carefully laid out arguments rather than blank pieces of paper promising the delusional like Vinny return of empire and glory. Starmers plan appears to be signing the uk back into the Eu by stealth , a thousand treaties behind the Brussels bike sheds , we can see its doomed before he begins. All he will do is empower people like Vinny , and brexiters in general will once again be martyred and potentially have the sympathy of those in the middle ground who are open to persuasion either way. Another major problem of course as ive said for years is Englands reputation and whatever clout it may have world wide. I specifically say England for obvious reasons , and Englands reputation will be in tatters I think if it comes crawling back to the EU , the world wide perception will be a slave crawling back to master. You will be a laughing stock. A lot of damage was done in 2016 , and the years running up to it as we have covered ad nauseam across various political sites over the years. Delusion of grandeur , brainwashing , pride , alternate reality of the world we live in today , coupled by a sense of grievance , much of which can be laid at the door of successive uk governments has led us to where we are today. The uk , if it survives , can rejoin the EU , but there will be massive consequences , some of which are laid out above , as well as benefits , but one thing is abundantly clear , it will not be the same as pre 2016. |
|
|
|
Post by Amadan on Jul 19, 2024 6:09:30 GMT
But then the EU would need to become a hell of a lot more democratic and I cannot see that happening.
When the EU becomes more 'democratic', Vinny doesn't know the meaning of the word democratic. While demanding entities he doesn't like , like the EU , become more democratic , Vinny at the same time is talking about the uk government unilaterally abolishing the devolved parliaments , with out any majority support in the devolved nations , and everything else he doesnt like on a whim. Democracy is something he chooses to champion and discard as he sees fit . I posted the "wee bleu book " on the old forum years ago , showing the democratic pros and cons of the running of the EU compared to the uk , Vinny and fellow brexiters didnt even read it. As we found during the scot indy ref with hardcore unionists , so you are finding the same with brexiters , no matter what argument is presented , they will always throw barriers across the road to block any progress as they are not open to any sort of persuasion , no matter how sensible the argument.. |
|
