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Post by Zany on Jul 3, 2024 19:53:56 GMT
Some people are always unhappy, everyone has a gripe about something, but polls say the majority say in is better than out. I agree immigration has been a big issue across the EU, but that's individual governments not the EU. If you want an example look at the UK's immigration since we left. Individual govts? no it’s not it’s down to Merkel and people like the war criminal Blair who fell in love with the European project and treaties made unfathomable to all but those with one objective. Where does that lead to? AFD and the once liberal Scandinavian countries who bought in to a dream that turned to a nightmare. I've asked this more than once but no one has a reply,why did those once liberal scandy societies turn? I’ve no time for Orban but he’s been told take down your barbed wire or else,the Greeks were told you’ll toe the line or else,you have no choice because you’re an economic basket case and that led to their less than humanitarian actions and point all this out and you’re a racist. If its some megaplan by Merkel. How do you explain why Boris invited a million people to come to the UK when he was running the Uk, free of the Eu and against it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2024 20:17:26 GMT
Individual govts? no it’s not it’s down to Merkel and people like the war criminal Blair who fell in love with the European project and treaties made unfathomable to all but those with one objective. Where does that lead to? AFD and the once liberal Scandinavian countries who bought in to a dream that turned to a nightmare. I've asked this more than once but no one has a reply,why did those once liberal scandy societies turn? I’ve no time for Orban but he’s been told take down your barbed wire or else,the Greeks were told you’ll toe the line or else,you have no choice because you’re an economic basket case and that led to their less than humanitarian actions and point all this out and you’re a racist. If it’s some megaplan by Merkel. How do you explain why Boris invited a million people to come to the UK when he was running the Uk, free of the Eu and against it. So you too couldn’t answer especially about the scandy countries. |
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Post by vinny on Jul 3, 2024 21:00:36 GMT
All across the EU voters are getting pissed off with it all.
Just look at France.
The mainstream pro EU parties are that shit, they've turned to the FN.
In Italy a party defamed as fascist is now in government.
9 years ago Jean Claude Juncker said to the Greeks "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties."
Over and over again the voters have been shit on by the EU and their mainstream parties have neither tried to claw back sovereignty or leave.
So what happens? They turn to parties we look at in horror at.
Yet in our country, where moderate Euroskeptics did get us a referendum and we've reclaimed our sovereignty, moderates are defamed as if they're Hitler's second coming and we're told that only in the EU (which is becoming an increasingly fucked up organisation) can we thrive.
I'm glad to be out, I don't fucking want to go back in.
The EU desperately needs reform either by scrapping the ever closer union bollocks and going back to a much looser but friendlier arrangement of nations with their own currencies, borders, customs controls etc, or going to a situation where every nation is part of a unitary democracy instead of the Commission run mess (and to achieve that, everyone would have to be given a vote for that).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2024 21:16:03 GMT
All across the EU voters are getting pissed off with it all. Just look at France. The mainstream pro EU parties are that shit, they've turned to the FN. In Italy a party defamed as fascist is now in government. 9 years ago Jean Claude Juncker said to the Greeks "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties." Over and over again the voters have been shit on by the EU and their mainstream parties have neither tried to claw back sovereignty or leave. So what happens? They turn to parties we look at in horror at. Yet in our country, where moderate Euroskeptics did get us a referendum and we've reclaimed our sovereignty, moderates are defamed as if they're Hitler's second coming and we're told that only in the EU (which is becoming an increasingly fucked up organisation) can we thrive. I'm glad to be out, I don't fucking want to go back in. The EU desperately needs reform either by scrapping the ever closer union bollocks and going back to a much looser but friendlier arrangement of nations with their own currencies, borders, customs controls etc, or going to a situation where every nation is part of a unitary democracy instead of the Commission run mess (and to achieve that, everyone would have to be given a vote for that). Got it in one |
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Post by Zany on Jul 3, 2024 21:16:08 GMT
If it’s some megaplan by Merkel. How do you explain why Boris invited a million people to come to the UK when he was running the Uk, free of the Eu and against it. So you too couldn’t answer especially about the scandy countries. No I can't not least because I've no idea what you are asking, but also because I don't sign up to your narrative, that Greece was told to tow a line etc I guess you're not going to explain why the UK keeps inviting people now they are free of Merkels clutches. Or why Italy complained that other EU countries should help with their asylum seekers and the same with Greece. Why didn't he overlords just instruct their slaves. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 3, 2024 21:35:37 GMT
All across the EU voters are getting pissed off with it all. Just look at France. The mainstream pro EU parties are that shit, they've turned to the FN. In Italy a party defamed as fascist is now in government. 9 years ago Jean Claude Juncker said to the Greeks "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties."Over and over again the voters have been shit on by the EU and their mainstream parties have neither tried to claw back sovereignty or leave. So what happens? They turn to parties we look at in horror at. Yet in our country, where moderate Euroskeptics did get us a referendum and we've reclaimed our sovereignty, moderates are defamed as if they're Hitler's second coming and we're told that only in the EU (which is becoming an increasingly fucked up organisation) can we thrive. I'm glad to be out, I don't fucking want to go back in. The EU desperately needs reform either by scrapping the ever closer union bollocks and going back to a much looser but friendlier arrangement of nations with their own currencies, borders, customs controls etc, or going to a situation where every nation is part of a unitary democracy instead of the Commission run mess (and to achieve that, everyone would have to be given a vote for that). Will this bollox ever stop doing the rounds of Brexiters. Greece having joined the EU and accepted EU loans at far lower interest rate then continued spending until their borrowing reached 175% of GDP, Alexis Tsipras suggested that the loans could be reduced by leaving the Euro converting the amount owed into Dracmas and then devaluing the currency. Jean Claude Juncker said. "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU". |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2024 21:37:14 GMT
So you too couldn’t answer especially about the scandy countries. No I can't not least because I've no idea what you are asking, but also because I don't sign up to your narrative, that Greece was told to tow a line etcI guess you're not going to explain why the UK keeps inviting people now they are free of Merkels clutches. Or why Italy complained that other EU countries should help with their asylum seekers and the same with Greece. Why didn't he overlords just instruct their slaves. Getting a bit mixed up there Zany old son, it’s a broken down car that needs a tow,mind you that resembles Brussels  They (the Greeks)were required to toe the line and suck up whatever came from Brussels. Not sure what I’m asking? couldn’t be clearer why are the once liberal Scandy countries turned so much against those who went there seeking asylum. |
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Post by vinny on Jul 3, 2024 21:45:35 GMT
All across the EU voters are getting pissed off with it all. Just look at France. The mainstream pro EU parties are that shit, they've turned to the FN. In Italy a party defamed as fascist is now in government. 9 years ago Jean Claude Juncker said to the Greeks "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties."Over and over again the voters have been shit on by the EU and their mainstream parties have neither tried to claw back sovereignty or leave. So what happens? They turn to parties we look at in horror at. Yet in our country, where moderate Euroskeptics did get us a referendum and we've reclaimed our sovereignty, moderates are defamed as if they're Hitler's second coming and we're told that only in the EU (which is becoming an increasingly fucked up organisation) can we thrive. I'm glad to be out, I don't fucking want to go back in. The EU desperately needs reform either by scrapping the ever closer union bollocks and going back to a much looser but friendlier arrangement of nations with their own currencies, borders, customs controls etc, or going to a situation where every nation is part of a unitary democracy instead of the Commission run mess (and to achieve that, everyone would have to be given a vote for that). Will this bollox ever stop doing the rounds of Brexiters. Greece having joined the EU and accepted EU loans at far lower interest rate then continued spending until their borrowing reached 175% of GDP, Alexis Tsipras suggested that the loans could be reduced by leaving the Euro converting the amount owed into Dracmas and then devaluing the currency. Jean Claude Juncker said. "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU". Which again shows a flaw in the EU. Greece should have been allowed to leave the Euro and devalue. Countries should be allowed to leave the Schengen zone too.
The organisation does not work, isn't flexible and does not repatriate sovereignty back to national governments.
It hordes power and gives power to the unelected Commission.
It desperately needs reform and continuously misses the opportunity to do so.
It needed a kick up the arse and we gave that kick.
Now, they are talking about reforms they would never have talked about when we were in and even those reforms fall very short of what it needs.
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Post by Zany on Jul 3, 2024 21:46:21 GMT
No I can't not least because I've no idea what you are asking, but also because I don't sign up to your narrative, that Greece was told to tow a line etcI guess you're not going to explain why the UK keeps inviting people now they are free of Merkels clutches. Or why Italy complained that other EU countries should help with their asylum seekers and the same with Greece. Why didn't he overlords just instruct their slaves. Getting a bit mixed up there Zany old son, it’s a broken down car that needs a tow,mind you that resembles Brussels They (the Greeks)were required to toe the line and suck up whatever came from Brussels. Not sure what I’m asking? couldn’t be clearer why are the once liberal Scandy countries turned so much against those who went there seeking asylum. In what way were the Greeks told to tow the line. Bare in mind I have already addressed Vinny's misquote of Juncker. Ok not sure what the Scandy countries have to do with the EU but in answer to your question, the same reason the UK public objects. Sheer numbers and some assaults and rapes that made the news. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 3, 2024 21:48:28 GMT
More disingenuity. What Juncker actually said was "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU".
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Post by Zany on Jul 3, 2024 21:52:18 GMT
Will this bollox ever stop doing the rounds of Brexiters. Greece having joined the EU and accepted EU loans at far lower interest rate then continued spending until their borrowing reached 175% of GDP, Alexis Tsipras suggested that the loans could be reduced by leaving the Euro converting the amount owed into Dracmas and then devaluing the currency. Jean Claude Juncker said. "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU". Which again shows a flaw in the EU. Greece should have been allowed to leave the Euro and devalue. Countries should be allowed to leave the Schengen zone too.
The organisation does not work, isn't flexible and does not repatriate sovereignty back to national governments.
It hordes power and gives power to the unelected Commission.
It desperately needs reform and continuously misses the opportunity to do so.
It needed a kick up the arse and we gave that kick.
Now, they are talking about reforms they would never have talked about when we were in.
What? You think the EU should bail Greece out and then allow Greece to shaft them. Or did you not understand the point? |
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Post by vinny on Jul 3, 2024 22:07:47 GMT
More disingenuity. What Juncker actually said was "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU". Which is an even bigger demonstration that the EU bullied bankrupt Greece. A country that should never have been in the Euro and now cannot leave despite all the damage done. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2024 22:16:17 GMT
All across the EU voters are getting pissed off with it all. Just look at France. The mainstream pro EU parties are that shit, they've turned to the FN. In Italy a party defamed as fascist is now in government. 9 years ago Jean Claude Juncker said to the Greeks "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties."Over and over again the voters have been shit on by the EU and their mainstream parties have neither tried to claw back sovereignty or leave. So what happens? They turn to parties we look at in horror at. Yet in our country, where moderate Euroskeptics did get us a referendum and we've reclaimed our sovereignty, moderates are defamed as if they're Hitler's second coming and we're told that only in the EU (which is becoming an increasingly fucked up organisation) can we thrive. I'm glad to be out, I don't fucking want to go back in. The EU desperately needs reform either by scrapping the ever closer union bollocks and going back to a much looser but friendlier arrangement of nations with their own currencies, borders, customs controls etc, or going to a situation where every nation is part of a unitary democracy instead of the Commission run mess (and to achieve that, everyone would have to be given a vote for that). Will this bollox ever stop doing the rounds of Brexiters. Greece having joined the EU and accepted EU loans at far lower interest rate then continued spending until their borrowing reached 175% of GDP, Alexis Tsipras suggested that the loans could be reduced by leaving the Euro converting the amount owed into Dracmas and then devaluing the currency. Jean Claude Juncker said. "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU". Merkel opened the floodgates,I remember on a now long gone forum those trying to lecture how poorly the UK performed in welcoming people like other eu nations not least Merkels Germany and where has that lead to the liberal alliance across the eu being rejected and some very suspect people appearing on the horizon. Which is why I suggested they are the authors of their own demise. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 4, 2024 5:51:52 GMT
More disingenuity. What Juncker actually said was "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU". Which is an even bigger demonstration that the EU bullied bankrupt Greece. A country that should never have been in the Euro and now cannot leave despite all the damage done. You're right about that. Greece should have been left to go bankrupt. Hardly anyone paid tax and the retirement age was 50. it was unsustainable. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on Jul 4, 2024 8:01:51 GMT
More disingenuity. What Juncker actually said was "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU". Which is an even bigger demonstration that the EU bullied bankrupt Greece. A country that should never have been in the Euro and now cannot leave despite all the damage done. No, read it again. Greece had the option of leaving the EU. Wisely it chose not to. |
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They (the Greeks)were required to toe the line and suck up whatever came from Brussels.