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Post by Orac on Jun 10, 2024 16:23:09 GMT
Children are famously easily manipulated.
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Post by Zany on Jun 10, 2024 17:44:27 GMT
Children are famously easily manipulated. Agreed. We are deciding when they are no longer children in that sense. |
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Post by equivocal on Jun 10, 2024 18:42:33 GMT
I assume you mean political 'education' in schools would tend to steer young people towards ideas that do not accord with those of the rest of the 'community'. I'd guess you mean 'too far to the Left'.
If the initial predictions are correct, a sizeable proportion of the youth vote in the recent European elections will have voted with the Boomers in support of Right or 'far' Right candidates. Unless, then, schools in Europe provide a very different kind of political 'education' from that here in the UK, your theory does not appear to be supported by recent experience. Having said that, I think that younger people are more likely to be seduced by promises from the far Left or Right and propagated through social media. Whether that is better or worse than the bulk of voters over, say, forty voting the way they and their families have always done is, I suppose, a moot point.
That is my fear. That they are too easily influenced in either direction. I think younger people may be exposed to a much wider range of opinions and promises than older people who, at least in my experience, tend to be influenced by their chosen source of 'news'. As such, I think the younger voter is more likely to vote based on a range of opinions.
Accepting the younger voter may be influenced in what might be in retrospect the wrong direction, if granting the vote earlier leads to continued involvement in the democratic process as the papers suggest and they continue to seek to form political opinions from a range of sources, thenI think granting the vote is a move in the right direction. Given it's a relatively small cohort and there is nothing to suggest all 16 and 17 year olds will vote in the same way, any mis-steps in direction should, I think, be more than counter balanced by future educated participation.
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Post by Orac on Jun 10, 2024 19:11:28 GMT
We all understand the reality of children. Many of us know children or were even children ourselves
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Post by Steve on Jun 10, 2024 19:33:54 GMT
Only if they accept full criminal responsibility It is not the 16 year olds who do not accept full criminal responsibility it is the law that will not allow them to. Maybe a change in the law is required. Which was the whole point in my OP. Change it to allow voting at 16 then at same time change the criminal responsibility laws. The howls of protest that would receive are surely evidence that votes at 16 is wrong too. |
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Post by patman post on Jun 16, 2024 13:21:47 GMT
Thinking about this as it's been discussed on radio and TV and in newspapers, my view is that the voting age should be the same as the age of majority. Before that age, the individual is judged not to be responsible enough to decide for themselves many aspects of their life, eg, •Sign a legal contract, •Create a will, •Become eligible for Jury Duty, •File a lawsuit, •Get a mortgage, •Legally gamble, •Get a tattoo, •Buy and drink alcohol on licensed premises, •Get married, enter a civil partnership or live together, •Stand as an MP or a local Councillor. And plenty more.
So if those below the age of majority are not thought mature enough to decide these aspects of their own lives, should they be given the ability to choose representatives who can make these and more decisions for others? Of course, the age of majority could be lowered... |
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Post by RedRum on Jun 27, 2024 5:36:41 GMT
Children are famously easily manipulated. As are the elderly, the disabled, women in general, men in general, working people, supermarket customers, protesters, left wingers, right wingers, politicians..... We are all being manipulated on a daily basis. |
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Post by RedRum on Jun 27, 2024 5:42:22 GMT
It is not the 16 year olds who do not accept full criminal responsibility it is the law that will not allow them to. Maybe a change in the law is required. Which was the whole point in my OP. Change it to allow voting at 16 then at same time change the criminal responsibility laws. The howls of protest that would receive are surely evidence that votes at 16 is wrong too. K, let's say a 16 year old and a 35 year old are sent to the same prison for committing the same crime. Which do you believe would be the more likely to be targeted by the perverts that exist in our prison system and not just the prisoners. I have always agreed that 16 year olds should face the full consequences of their actions but that they should not be put in a position of extra danger than necessary, prison is about rehabilitation as well as punishment. |
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Post by vinny on Jun 27, 2024 6:47:17 GMT
A 16 year old commits multiple murders and gets whole life.
Adult prison immediately?
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Post by RedRum on Jun 27, 2024 7:42:10 GMT
A 16 year old commits multiple murders and gets whole life. Adult prison immediately? Why - as an extra punishment. A 16 year old not only has the consequences of his/her crime to 'suffer' but exposing them to the undoubted older perverts in prison is not really acceptable. What you are advocating is double punishment. It appears to be the 'location' of the punishment not the actual punishment we are 'arguing' about. We do not 'double' punish adults when considerations are made their locations. |
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Post by vinny on Jun 27, 2024 8:47:53 GMT
At 16 someone can marry, have sex, get a motorcycle licence, join the Army, work and pay tax, buy a house, if they are to vote, they need recognition as young adults.
If you are saying they are children, why allow them to vote?
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Post by Orac on Jun 27, 2024 9:28:03 GMT
Children are famously easily manipulated. As are the elderly, the disabled, women in general, men in general, working people, supermarket customers, protesters, left wingers, right wingers, politicians..... We are all being manipulated on a daily basis. How does a precise and correct assertion get swept away on a sea on vague generalisation? We know children are manipulable because we were all once children and many of us have children. Children are manipulable because they have no comparison to start their own analysis from. We all know this and we can all see all the way through your gas-lighting |
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Post by Steve on Jun 27, 2024 16:33:50 GMT
At 16 someone can marry, have sex, get a motorcycle licence, join the Army, work and pay tax, buy a house, if they are to vote, they need recognition as young adults. If you are saying they are children, why allow them to vote? Exactly They shouldn't have the vote. BTW you can't get married at 16 anymore in the UK, raised to 18 two years ago. |
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Post by vinny on Jun 27, 2024 23:52:43 GMT
At 16 someone can marry, have sex, get a motorcycle licence, join the Army, work and pay tax, buy a house, if they are to vote, they need recognition as young adults. If you are saying they are children, why allow them to vote? Exactly They shouldn't have the vote. BTW you can't get married at 16 anymore in the UK, raised to 18 two years ago. Ah, ok, I missed that one. |
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Post by RedRum on Jun 29, 2024 12:25:35 GMT
As are the elderly, the disabled, women in general, men in general, working people, supermarket customers, protesters, left wingers, right wingers, politicians..... We are all being manipulated on a daily basis. How does a precise and correct assertion get swept away on a sea on vague generalisation? We know children are manipulable because we were all once children and many of us have children. Children are manipulable because they have no comparison to start their own analysis from. We all know this and we can all see all the way through your gas-lighting Do you mean that 16 year olds are as manipulatable as 6 year olds? |
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