Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 9, 2024 9:20:23 GMT
According to the likes of the Daily Mail. But do you have any sources of repute for that? There's plenty out there. I get 3 or 4 emails every month warning me I could be breeching some or other regulation and that I should send staff on one or other course. Whether you take any notice depends on your own knowledge and nervousness. Its easier now the company is bigger and has in house specialists, but when the company was growing it took up a lot of my time. So no quotable sources. I suggest what you are seeing is a result of your company's insurers taking a probability based view of risk and not any legal requirements. |
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Post by Orac on May 9, 2024 9:47:14 GMT
A complete diagnosis is complex - i think in earlier days it would have been stopped by public ridicule. However, nowadays people seem to be much more cowed and careful.. It is one of many situations in the current landscape in which something that nobody wants or needs seems to have to be endured by everyone (at cost). Perhaps it is time for government intervention - the government should simplify employer liability for things like office spaces and issue literature that can be read an understood in about an hour? Its difficult Fire regulation used to be a set of rules, but this lead to some premises finding it impossible to meet them. Now its much more vague, but that leaves it open to interpretation. Most of the time its just easier to spend the money and do as is "suggested" by example. At one site where there are two fire escapes, one fire officer said we should have signs showing people that, and pointing both ways to the fire exits. The next told us that in a panic situation this would be confusing and we should take them down. So we had removeable signs made so we could replace and remove according to instruction. One government official told us our accident book was suspicious as nothing was recorded and we should record even minor grazes to show it was being filled in. The next told us it was a complete waste of her time reading through pages of Man bumped head, no action taken. Child tripped, cool bag applied to knee. (Incidentally in 17 years of trading we have had approx 860,000 visitors and nothing more serious than a broken wrist. And no incidents among staff at all.
I'm just not evil enough.  Its an endless round of people justifying their existence. Your anecdotes are hilarious - fire exit signs that could be re-arranged for every inspection, gazed knees recorded in intricate detail with correct time and location of the incident You seem to have all this adequately covered, but i have to wonder if you meteorite strike mitigation procedure is up to date and has been reviewed by a fully qualified astronomer |
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Post by dappy on May 9, 2024 9:51:42 GMT
Zany, I am content to let others judge on the substance of our conversation yesterday. Not sure it would be beneficial to rake over the coals now. What I do regret is not walking away earlier when it was clear that the prospect of productive conversation had gone. While I am passionate about safety at work, I apologize for that. Yesterday was a bit of a throwback to the old forum. Not what I would like to see here. I wish you and your business all success in the future. I couldn't care about safety. A few workers dying, that's just life. A child burning to death because I cut a few corners, Well its good for profit, aint it.  As I say Zany, I don’t think there is anything to be gained by raking these coals any more. The thread is there for anyone who so chooses to read through. I hope you are OK. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 9, 2024 10:24:03 GMT
. . i have to wonder if you meteorite strike mitigation procedure is up to date and has been reviewed by a fully qualified astronomer Well that reminds me of another event in my past. All good project management involves some sort of risk analysis and all good companies have some sort of documented default procedure for such where low probability low impact risks get no action through to high probability high impact risks having mandatory action. So where I was working had a procedure saying in effect 'any potential high impact event must have a formal risk abatement procedure AND monthly reports' So being Mr Sarcastic I asked what would be a suitable template for: the Martians invading and taking over the planet? I got told 'don't be silly' and my something like 'you started it' response probably limited what passed for my career. IIRC the procedure was still there when I left many years later. |
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Post by Orac on May 9, 2024 10:38:40 GMT
. . i have to wonder if you meteorite strike mitigation procedure is up to date and has been reviewed by a fully qualified astronomer Well that reminds me of another event in my past. All good project management involves some sort of risk analysis and all good companies have some sort of documented default procedure for such where low probability low impact risks get no action through to high probability high impact risks having mandatory action. So where I was working had a procedure saying in effect 'any potential high impact event must have a formal risk abatement procedure AND monthly reports' So being Mr Sarcastic I asked what would be a suitable template for: the Martians invading and taking over the planet? I got told 'don't be silly' and my something like 'you started it' response probably limited what passed for my career. IIRC the procedure was still there when I left many years later. I'd like to reassure you that you did yourself no damage - that your intervention was seen as displaying clear-thinking and leadership qualities desperately needed by any organisation - unfortunately, this is not the case. It is quite likely that the compliant saps who sat there and unthinkingly nodded when they were drenched with nonsense reasoning that has no limits, did better out of the exchange than yourself. An important aspect of any mob is having a way to punish 'have a go heroes' |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 9, 2024 11:06:01 GMT
I didn't exactly have a bad career.
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Post by Zany on May 9, 2024 14:24:01 GMT
There's plenty out there. I get 3 or 4 emails every month warning me I could be breeching some or other regulation and that I should send staff on one or other course. Whether you take any notice depends on your own knowledge and nervousness. Its easier now the company is bigger and has in house specialists, but when the company was growing it took up a lot of my time. So no quotable sources. I suggest what you are seeing is a result of your company's insurers taking a probability based view of risk and not any legal requirements. What would a quotable source even be. I get emails warning that we might be in breach of employment law, electrical testing, food safety, allergies. etc etc They usually start with something like are you could be unaware of new legislation blah blah. Believe me or not, that's up to you. Oh and our insurers request all up to date safety, fire and electrical certificates annually and any written correspondence from authorities, food hygene ratings etc. But that's true for everyone. |
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Post by Orac on May 9, 2024 15:40:15 GMT
The other gigantically overgrown and useless emergent 'ecology' is employee evaluation.
If these people just all shot themselves, productivity would significantly increase
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 9, 2024 16:55:22 GMT
For a short while.
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Post by Orac on May 9, 2024 17:14:35 GMT
Until a new generation of professional grifters embedded themselves. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 9, 2024 19:31:28 GMT
No until you have a workforce of misfits, bullies and shit heads because you never told them what they were good and bad at and what they had to and could be better at..
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Post by Orac on May 9, 2024 19:46:51 GMT
No until you have a workforce of misfits, bullies and shit heads because you never told them what they were good and bad at and what they had to and could be better at.. What is often astounding is the impenetrable conceit of these useless ass-clowns. Many of them really do seem to earnestly believe they are in some kind of parental / guardian relationship with other adults |
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Post by patman post on May 9, 2024 21:04:45 GMT
Two safety stories:-
Years ago I took a bar job while at uni. The manager insisted on taking me through all the hospitality training in force at the time. But one item that’s stayed with me, and what he said was a requirement in Ireland, was instruction on how to pass behind other bar staff while behind the bar. In essence the rule was to let others know you’re behind them, usually by gently touching their back or shoulder as you move behind them. Something I notice seldom happens in I’ve been in bars in London.
The other is when we lived in our first property — it was a flat in Clapton that we lived in for a couple of years before we moved out and it had new tenants. One stipulation is the there needs to be yearly safety checks of, among other things, gas appliances. We had this done regularly and got all the required signatures. After 5/6 years, and before a change of tenants, the gas water heater required a new thermocouple. Needing it done quickly, I got the item and decided to fit it myself. Taking off the water heater casing — as a service engineer would need to do to check and clean the boiler — I discovered a toy one of our princesses had thrown behind the boiler years before.
So we’d been paying for checking and servicing to comply with the law and got the certificates to prove it. Apart from lessening the the safety of the tenants, who would have been responsible had any accidents happened…?
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 9, 2024 23:01:27 GMT
The engineer that didn't do his job properly
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 9, 2024 23:05:50 GMT
What I'm really finding difficult in this thread is that some people believe that because they can find a few examples of over caution and maybe even idiocy then that somehow proves the whole idea of legal obligations on safety and having formal processes to meet such are somehow wrong. Still they can always look to get a job at Boeing www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68979354 |
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