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Post by Zany on May 8, 2024 6:57:57 GMT
Cambridgeshire Council tells volunteers to take £300 safety course before installing hanging baskets. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck5k38lje2yoSafety has gone mad in this country, 20mph zones yet another example of safety gods making decisions with no empirical evidence their actions make a difference. In business over the last ten years its become a major cost. See a mouse in your kitchen at home, buy a mouse trap. See a mouse in your cafe at work, shut for two weeks and give a year long contract to an extermination company. Why? Because mouse droppings might, just might carry Hantavirus and if you imbibe too much mouse pee you can catch it. And how many cases of Hantavirus were there in the UK last year? 7. But no one dare challenge the safety gods. In business every year another bunch of checks, tests, visits and regulations are added to the cost of running a company and now you the public are beginning to be affected directly. We have a length of dual carriageway near me that is limited to 40mph Why? Because the it switched ownership from the Highways England to the county council and the crash barriers have not been safety checked. Now you can do 60mph on a country lane with cars coming straight at you and no crash barrier at all, but the safety gods say if you have a barrier that's not been checked its dangerous. And no one dare challenge the safety gods. I look forward to your comments and examples.
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Post by dappy on May 8, 2024 7:45:37 GMT
In my experience Zany, Health and Safety is a complete pain in the arse until your business suffers a serious incident at which time management pivots to questioning why the safety culture was not stronger.
An acquaintance of mine was hit by a fork lift truck. He survived but never fully recovered from his injuries, lived in pain for the rest of his life and eventually that pain became too much. He left behind two youngish kids. The boss of the company paid a substantial fine, narrowly avoided jail but otherwise didn’t seem overly bothered.
Bosses of companies face many pressures to keep their companies afloat and make good profits for themselves. They are only human. Without external inspection the temptation to get a bit blasé about safety and cut a few corners can be strong. 99 times out of 100, perhaps 999 times out of a thousand he will get away with it. The other time he won’t and somebody else will pay the price.
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Post by Zany on May 8, 2024 8:27:48 GMT
In my experience Zany, Health and Safety is a complete pain in the arse until your business suffers a serious incident at which time management pivots to questioning why the safety culture was not stronger. An acquaintance of mine was hit by a fork lift truck. He survived but never fully recovered from his injuries, lived in pain for the rest of his life and eventually that pain became too much. He left behind two youngish kids. The boss of the company paid a substantial fine, narrowly avoided jail but otherwise didn’t seem overly bothered. Bosses of companies face many pressures to keep their companies afloat and make good profits for themselves. They are only human. Without external inspection the temptation to get a bit blasé about safety and cut a few corners can be strong. 99 times out of 100, perhaps 999 times out of a thousand he will get away with it. The other time he won’t and somebody else will pay the price. I'm not against health and safety. I'm against health and safety gone mad. We have to pay a man nearly 6k twice a year to test our fire alarms. Fair do's you say until you realise he can only do the same checks my staff do every week. Modern fire alarms report if a smoke head fails or the circuit is broken. They beep at you insistently. Once a week as per regulation staff test the fire alarms by pressing the test button. The man goes round all our centres and tests the fire alarms by pressing the test button. The only other thing he tests is that the battery back up is still good. We could replace all the batteries every year for £250.00. Indeed.. It is cheaper for us to throw away our fire extinguishers every year and buy new ones than to follow the government guidance and have them annually pressure tested, even though all the modern ones come with a pressure gauge to show they have not accidentally depressurised or been used. The list goes on and on. And was your mate saved by a safety check or a training course? No of course not, the fork truck driver did the course and then drove like he always did. Just the same as car drivers do. Empirical evidence. Show me the evidence that wider legs on step ladders has reduced accidents. My experience is that people just think they can lean even further out. Wait till the safety gods say you have to pay £300 twice a year to have YOUR home smoke heads tested, then you'll begin to see what business are talking about.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 8, 2024 8:38:58 GMT
Cambridgeshire Council tells volunteers to take £300 safety course before installing hanging baskets. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck5k38lje2yoSafety has gone mad in this country, 20mph zones yet another example of safety gods making decisions with no empirical evidence their actions make a difference. In business over the last ten years its become a major cost. See a mouse in your kitchen at home, buy a mouse trap. See a mouse in your cafe at work, shut for two weeks and give a year long contract to an extermination company. Why? Because mouse droppings might, just might carry Hantavirus and if you imbibe too much mouse pee you can catch it. And how many cases of Hantavirus were there in the UK last year? 7. But no one dare challenge the safety gods. In business every year another bunch of checks, tests, visits and regulations are added to the cost of running a company and now you the public are beginning to be affected directly. We have a length of dual carriageway near me that is limited to 40mph Why? Because the it switched ownership from the Highways England to the county council and the crash barriers have not been safety checked. Now you can do 60mph on a country lane with cars coming straight at you and no crash barrier at all, but the safety gods say if you have a barrier that's not been checked its dangerous. And no one dare challenge the safety gods. I look forward to your comments and examples. I don't believe your examples especially as your own link contradicts your first one. Not £300 You might want to google ALARP it's the dominating legal precedent and correct approach to safety. Of course it's not always adhered to (both ways) but I suggest you need to look at the issue in the round.
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Post by dappy on May 8, 2024 9:15:59 GMT
It is undoubtedly true Zany that some health and safety procedures will prove unnecessary. Just as at the end of the year when you haven’t had a fire, “wasting” that money on insurance was unnecessary.
Using your example though, have there been instances in this and other countries where there has been significant loss of life in buildings open to the public caused by deficient fire alarms and fire extinguishers - yes. Is it possible for the public to protect itself from these risks - no. Is it therefore proportionate for the licensing authorities to insist that an independent party checks the equipment - in my view yes.
You give the impression that you rage against any protections for the public - planning, health and safety etc - that get in the way of the great god Zany earning a quick buck. I am sure you are a better business owner in real life than you sometimes present when you sound off on these forums but honestly it’s not always a good look.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 8, 2024 9:50:12 GMT
True story
At my last employer I had to take a safety course before I was allowed to climb a ladder. I moaned about this but little did I know that one of the guys I worked with lost his first wife when she fell off the second step of a ladder - killed instantly.
Oh and people have been seriously injured by improperly hung hanging baskets
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Post by Orac on May 8, 2024 10:08:58 GMT
In large organisations, safety instructions for opening a door or sitting down are not un-known.
These will typically take the form of glossy e-courses that have to be reviewed and kept uo to date by a team lawyers and experts.
It's a form of parasitism. The perfect parasite gets paid for changing nothing and therefore not being responsible for any change.
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Post by Saint on May 8, 2024 11:01:54 GMT
True story At my last employer I had to take a safety course before I was allowed to climb a ladder. I moaned about this but little did I know that one of the guys I worked with lost his first wife when she fell off the second step of a ladder - killed instantly. Oh and people have been seriously injured by improperly hung hanging baskets Fate can be very cruel. I've heard stories of people who have survived when their parachute failed to open. I've also heard stories about people who've died falling from a bar stool and, now, the second rung of a ladder. It's just incredible!
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Post by montegriffo on May 8, 2024 15:01:39 GMT
Cambridgeshire Council tells volunteers to take £300 safety course before installing hanging baskets. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck5k38lje2yoSafety has gone mad in this country, 20mph zones yet another example of safety gods making decisions with no empirical evidence their actions make a difference. In business over the last ten years its become a major cost. See a mouse in your kitchen at home, buy a mouse trap. See a mouse in your cafe at work, shut for two weeks and give a year long contract to an extermination company. Why? Because mouse droppings might, just might carry Hantavirus and if you imbibe too much mouse pee you can catch it. And how many cases of Hantavirus were there in the UK last year? 7. But no one dare challenge the safety gods. In business every year another bunch of checks, tests, visits and regulations are added to the cost of running a company and now you the public are beginning to be affected directly. We have a length of dual carriageway near me that is limited to 40mph Why? Because the it switched ownership from the Highways England to the county council and the crash barriers have not been safety checked. Now you can do 60mph on a country lane with cars coming straight at you and no crash barrier at all, but the safety gods say if you have a barrier that's not been checked its dangerous. And no one dare challenge the safety gods. I look forward to your comments and examples. So health and safety regulations kept cases of Hantavirus down to 7 for the year? With a 40% fatality rate that's a good thing surely?
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Post by Zany on May 8, 2024 16:00:16 GMT
Cambridgeshire Council tells volunteers to take £300 safety course before installing hanging baskets. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck5k38lje2yoSafety has gone mad in this country, 20mph zones yet another example of safety gods making decisions with no empirical evidence their actions make a difference. In business over the last ten years its become a major cost. See a mouse in your kitchen at home, buy a mouse trap. See a mouse in your cafe at work, shut for two weeks and give a year long contract to an extermination company. Why? Because mouse droppings might, just might carry Hantavirus and if you imbibe too much mouse pee you can catch it. And how many cases of Hantavirus were there in the UK last year? 7. But no one dare challenge the safety gods. In business every year another bunch of checks, tests, visits and regulations are added to the cost of running a company and now you the public are beginning to be affected directly. We have a length of dual carriageway near me that is limited to 40mph Why? Because the it switched ownership from the Highways England to the county council and the crash barriers have not been safety checked. Now you can do 60mph on a country lane with cars coming straight at you and no crash barrier at all, but the safety gods say if you have a barrier that's not been checked its dangerous. And no one dare challenge the safety gods. I look forward to your comments and examples. I don't believe your examples especially as your own link contradicts your first one. Not £300 You might want to google ALARP it's the dominating legal precedent and correct approach to safety. Of course it's not always adhered to (both ways) but I suggest you need to look at the issue in the round. The first line of my post was copied straight from google (The Telegraph) Did they get it wrong? www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/07/health-and-safety-course-before-installing-hanging-baskets/#:~:text=Residents%20in%20a%20market%20town,hanging%20baskets%20on%20street%20lights. I provided another link because I know the Telegraph has a pay wall. Besides its not the cost of the safety course but the need to take one to put up a hanging basket. I am Aware of ALARP, in real terms its meaningless because its so vague. Its a classic piece of government advice. What is tolerable risk? Acceptable risk? Does repairing a hole in the road require 300mtrs of cones and a traffic light system. or a van with amber flashing light and half a dozen cones. Which is Tolerable, Acceptable, Intolerable ? Travel in Spain and its 3 men, van and a few cones. Here they close one lane for 300mtrs and put in traffic lights. No wonder none of our pot holes get filled. And apparently the pot holes pose no risk because you the driver should be more aware and drive slower.
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Post by Zany on May 8, 2024 16:19:16 GMT
It is undoubtedly true Zany that some health and safety procedures will prove unnecessary. Just as at the end of the year when you haven’t had a fire, “wasting” that money on insurance was unnecessary. Using your example though, have there been instances in this and other countries where there has been significant loss of life in buildings open to the public caused by deficient fire alarms and fire extinguishers - yes. Is it possible for the public to protect itself from these risks - no. Is it therefore proportionate for the licensing authorities to insist that an independent party checks the equipment - in my view yes. You give the impression that you rage against any protections for the public - planning, health and safety etc - that get in the way of the great god Zany earning a quick buck. I am sure you are a better business owner in real life than you sometimes present when you sound off on these forums but honestly it’s not always a good look. Again you quote somewhere with non working fire systems as your comparison. NO I DO NOT WANT NON WORKING FIRE SYSTEM. ALL OF OUR PREMISES ARE FITTED WITH THE LATEST ADDESSIBLE SYSTEMS. I'll tell you another laugh, the fire brigade require our centres to have two different fire extinguishers for types of fire. But on their instruction our safety training is that staff should not tackle fires and should evacuate immediatley. And that we have secondary escape routes incase the primary one is block by the fire, so no need to ever tackle a fire. Pretty standard that, but we pay extra to have our secondary escape route as a dedicated fire proof corridor. Why? Because we have children in the premises and I would never forgive myself if one died, even if the authorities said I'd ticked all the stupid boxes. That you cannot comprehend that there could be a difference between sensible safety and ridiculous overkill ill thought through safety means conversation on the subject with you will prove impossible. You seem very happy to spend other peoples money without any consideration, I wonder if you are the same with your own? Do you have a linked fire system in your home or do you not care if your family burn to death, how about fire extinguishers, I assume you have two of those? Or are you a hypocrite calling other people names? I assume you approve of the need for the citizens of Chatteris to take the hanging basket safety course.
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Post by equivocal on May 8, 2024 16:38:17 GMT
Cambridgeshire Council tells volunteers to take £300 safety course before installing hanging baskets. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck5k38lje2yoSafety has gone mad in this country, 20mph zones yet another example of safety gods making decisions with no empirical evidence their actions make a difference. In business over the last ten years its become a major cost. See a mouse in your kitchen at home, buy a mouse trap. See a mouse in your cafe at work, shut for two weeks and give a year long contract to an extermination company. Why? Because mouse droppings might, just might carry Hantavirus and if you imbibe too much mouse pee you can catch it. And how many cases of Hantavirus were there in the UK last year? 7. But no one dare challenge the safety gods. In business every year another bunch of checks, tests, visits and regulations are added to the cost of running a company and now you the public are beginning to be affected directly. We have a length of dual carriageway near me that is limited to 40mph Why? Because the it switched ownership from the Highways England to the county council and the crash barriers have not been safety checked. Now you can do 60mph on a country lane with cars coming straight at you and no crash barrier at all, but the safety gods say if you have a barrier that's not been checked its dangerous. And no one dare challenge the safety gods. I look forward to your comments and examples. I have to say if I saw a mouse in my kitchen, I'd be looking for professional assistance. I don't think I'd eat anywhere with traps or evidence of even professional intervention for a rodent infestation.
I also think it's crazy to allow (trained or untrained) volunteers to mount hanging baskets or anything else at height on lamp posts.
I do agree that it's madness to have narrow country lanes with national speed limits. I'm surrounded by them and doing much more than 30 mph is bloody dangerous.
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Post by Zany on May 8, 2024 16:40:39 GMT
True story At my last employer I had to take a safety course before I was allowed to climb a ladder. I moaned about this but little did I know that one of the guys I worked with lost his first wife when she fell off the second step of a ladder - killed instantly. Everyone climbing a ladder has to take a working at heights safety course. Luckily if you climb a ladder at home it doesn't matter if you die (No working at heights £80 course for you.) Its only at work where it matters if you fall off a ladder. Surely you would be willing to pay for the working at heights course at home? People die every year falling down the stairs, they die putting their trousers on. I hope you've done your stair climbing and getting dressed safety course? Slippers caused 27,000 visits to A@E last year, so ban them. Over 6,000 ended up in hospital after colliding with their dog, so we need some more safety there. Nearly 5,937 people were burned by tea, so I think we should insist on children's sipping cups for tea and coffee. Or at the very least at hot drinks safety course. While you're there you could ask how to have your water hot enough to kill bacteria and cool enough not to scold at the same time. I'd love to know the answer to that one. Fact is no one is allowed to have common sense anymore.
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Post by Zany on May 8, 2024 16:44:38 GMT
Cambridgeshire Council tells volunteers to take £300 safety course before installing hanging baskets. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck5k38lje2yoSafety has gone mad in this country, 20mph zones yet another example of safety gods making decisions with no empirical evidence their actions make a difference. In business over the last ten years its become a major cost. See a mouse in your kitchen at home, buy a mouse trap. See a mouse in your cafe at work, shut for two weeks and give a year long contract to an extermination company. Why? Because mouse droppings might, just might carry Hantavirus and if you imbibe too much mouse pee you can catch it. And how many cases of Hantavirus were there in the UK last year? 7. But no one dare challenge the safety gods. In business every year another bunch of checks, tests, visits and regulations are added to the cost of running a company and now you the public are beginning to be affected directly. We have a length of dual carriageway near me that is limited to 40mph Why? Because the it switched ownership from the Highways England to the county council and the crash barriers have not been safety checked. Now you can do 60mph on a country lane with cars coming straight at you and no crash barrier at all, but the safety gods say if you have a barrier that's not been checked its dangerous. And no one dare challenge the safety gods. I look forward to your comments and examples. So health and safety regulations kept cases of Hantavirus down to 7 for the year? With a 40% fatality rate that's a good thing surely? You assume the 7 a year are reduced by such extreme measures, that's where I think the gap comes. Empirical evidence then safety cost please.
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Post by Zany on May 8, 2024 16:52:20 GMT
Cambridgeshire Council tells volunteers to take £300 safety course before installing hanging baskets. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ck5k38lje2yoSafety has gone mad in this country, 20mph zones yet another example of safety gods making decisions with no empirical evidence their actions make a difference. In business over the last ten years its become a major cost. See a mouse in your kitchen at home, buy a mouse trap. See a mouse in your cafe at work, shut for two weeks and give a year long contract to an extermination company. Why? Because mouse droppings might, just might carry Hantavirus and if you imbibe too much mouse pee you can catch it. And how many cases of Hantavirus were there in the UK last year? 7. But no one dare challenge the safety gods. In business every year another bunch of checks, tests, visits and regulations are added to the cost of running a company and now you the public are beginning to be affected directly. We have a length of dual carriageway near me that is limited to 40mph Why? Because the it switched ownership from the Highways England to the county council and the crash barriers have not been safety checked. Now you can do 60mph on a country lane with cars coming straight at you and no crash barrier at all, but the safety gods say if you have a barrier that's not been checked its dangerous. And no one dare challenge the safety gods. I look forward to your comments and examples. I have to say if I saw a mouse in my kitchen, I'd be looking for professional assistance. I don't think I'd eat anywhere with traps or evidence of even professional intervention for a rodent infestation. A mouse in your kitchen is not a rodent infestation, its a mouse that got into your kitchen. Do you hire a professional if you get a bird in your house? What about a fly, they're really dirty. And yet somehow they've managed it for years without incident. But I expect the safety course will seriously reduce the number of accidents. Oh wait... And 40 on dual carriageways, yes I agree. Personally I think all cars should be limited to 40mph Oh and heart disease is by far our biggest killer, so compulsory £300 courses on keeping fit and eating properly are a very good idea. What do you think?
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