Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 2,591
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Post by Steve on May 14, 2024 14:23:30 GMT
The Tories are the ones who partied whilst the nation had Covid. They've had 14 years in office. They've run out of steam. The thing is, Labour are not a very inspiring alternative and I don't think they've learned from their past mistakes. seconded
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Post by Zany on May 14, 2024 16:05:39 GMT
The Tories are the ones who partied whilst the nation had Covid. They've had 14 years in office. They've run out of steam. The thing is, Labour are not a very inspiring alternative and I don't think they've learned from their past mistakes. seconded I'd settle for at the moment.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2024 9:51:08 GMT
I'd settle for at the moment. They rely on us settling for that in order not to have to offer anything better. Which is why I will not be voting for either wing of the establishmentarian two party duopoly. When Labour gets in - and it does look very much like a when and not an if right now, regardless of my refusal to vote for it - I will nevertheless invest hopes for something better and will give it a fair chance. I will be supportive of anything which I think is good but will say so if I think it does not go far enough. And I will be critical of anything I might disagree with. But I will be fair as viewed through the prism of my own perspective and values. We have crises to be dealt with on many fronts but the big two are health and housing. The NHS is on it's knees, most of us cannot get a GP appointment. Non-medically qualified clerical staff are making triage decisions about how serious our medical conditions are. NHS dentists are an endangered species. Hospital waiting lists are at unprecedented levels, which is keeping more people unable to work for longer. Mental health services are wholly inadequate, yet the Tories seem to think the mentally ill are lazy arses who just need to pull themselves together, and that reductions in their incomes in combination with constant harassment from jobcentres is just what they need to make them feel better. As for the housing crisis, this is by far the biggest driver of the cost of living crisis, and when combined with the chronic insecurity of private renting will clearly have a detrimental effects on tenants' mental health, with their kids constantly having to change schools and themselves constantly moving away from friends and unable to put down roots. We need much more affordable housing to buy, much more social lets with the suspension of right to buy until the social housing waiting list has been reduced to a level where those on it can expect to be housed within a year. And private tenants need much more reasonable rents with genuine security of tenure. Above all else we need to be building. Which itself will boost the economy and help increase growth. The last Labour government did a lot of good on the health front, albeit with much of the cost mortgaged for future generations via PFI schemes. But it did very little on housing. The next Labour government needs to deliver on both housing and health to win me over. If it succeeds it may well win my vote next time and win me over.
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Post by Zany on May 15, 2024 12:34:11 GMT
I'd settle for at the moment. They rely on us settling for that in order not to have to offer anything better. Which is why I will not be voting for either wing of the establishmentarian two party duopoly. When Labour gets in - and it does look very much like a when and not an if right now, regardless of my refusal to vote for it - I will nevertheless invest hopes for something better and will give it a fair chance. I will be supportive of anything which I think is good but will say so if I think it does not go far enough. And I will be critical of anything I might disagree with. But I will be fair as viewed through the prism of my own perspective and values. We have crises to be dealt with on many fronts but the big two are health and housing. The NHS is on it's knees, most of us cannot get a GP appointment. Non-medically qualified clerical staff are making triage decisions about how serious our medical conditions are. NHS dentists are an endangered species. Hospital waiting lists are at unprecedented levels, which is keeping more people unable to work for longer. Mental health services are wholly inadequate, yet the Tories seem to think the mentally ill are lazy arses who just need to pull themselves together, and that reductions in their incomes in combination with constant harassment from jobcentres is just what they need to make them feel better. As for the housing crisis, this is by far the biggest driver of the cost of living crisis, and when combined with the chronic insecurity of private renting will clearly have a detrimental effects on tenants' mental health, with their kids constantly having to change schools and themselves constantly moving away from friends and unable to put down roots. We need much more affordable housing to buy, much more social lets with the suspension of right to buy until the social housing waiting list has been reduced to a level where those on it can expect to be housed within a year. And private tenants need much more reasonable rents with genuine security of tenure. Above all else we need to be building. Which itself will boost the economy and help increase growth. The last Labour government did a lot of good on the health front, albeit with much of the cost mortgaged for future generations via PFI schemes. But it did very little on housing. The next Labour government needs to deliver on both housing and health to win me over. If it succeeds it may well win my vote next time and win me over. Much of your post I would have written myself. I agree on Housing and NHS being number one. I guess the difference is in our voting choice. My vote will get me a better party than the current villains Your vote will get you nothing. Lets hope Labour wins you over because that will mean they have tackled the housing crises. Q: Would you like them to build council houses?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2024 15:42:36 GMT
They rely on us settling for that in order not to have to offer anything better. Which is why I will not be voting for either wing of the establishmentarian two party duopoly. When Labour gets in - and it does look very much like a when and not an if right now, regardless of my refusal to vote for it - I will nevertheless invest hopes for something better and will give it a fair chance. I will be supportive of anything which I think is good but will say so if I think it does not go far enough. And I will be critical of anything I might disagree with. But I will be fair as viewed through the prism of my own perspective and values. We have crises to be dealt with on many fronts but the big two are health and housing. The NHS is on it's knees, most of us cannot get a GP appointment. Non-medically qualified clerical staff are making triage decisions about how serious our medical conditions are. NHS dentists are an endangered species. Hospital waiting lists are at unprecedented levels, which is keeping more people unable to work for longer. Mental health services are wholly inadequate, yet the Tories seem to think the mentally ill are lazy arses who just need to pull themselves together, and that reductions in their incomes in combination with constant harassment from jobcentres is just what they need to make them feel better. As for the housing crisis, this is by far the biggest driver of the cost of living crisis, and when combined with the chronic insecurity of private renting will clearly have a detrimental effects on tenants' mental health, with their kids constantly having to change schools and themselves constantly moving away from friends and unable to put down roots. We need much more affordable housing to buy, much more social lets with the suspension of right to buy until the social housing waiting list has been reduced to a level where those on it can expect to be housed within a year. And private tenants need much more reasonable rents with genuine security of tenure. Above all else we need to be building. Which itself will boost the economy and help increase growth. The last Labour government did a lot of good on the health front, albeit with much of the cost mortgaged for future generations via PFI schemes. But it did very little on housing. The next Labour government needs to deliver on both housing and health to win me over. If it succeeds it may well win my vote next time and win me over. Much of your post I would have written myself. I agree on Housing and NHS being number one. I guess the difference is in our voting choice. My vote will get me a better party than the current villains Your vote will get you nothing. Lets hope Labour wins you over because that will mean they have tackled the housing crises. Q: Would you like them to build council houses? My vote is never going to deliver a Tory victory right now. It looks like Labour will win anyway but if my vote and that of others like me finding better candidates to vote for makes a hung parliament slightly more likely, then that is exactly what I want to happen. So you have helped make me more determined not to vote Labour because that increases the chances of a hung parliament without in any way being enough to save the Tories. And yes I would like to build more council houses. But many councils like mine no longer have any council housing at all nor support infrastructure to run it. Back in the Blair years when the Labour government was pursuing the continuation of Tory housing policies with no real change, my then Labour council transferred the entire stock over to a newly set up housing association. There was a ballot of course. But the council promised everyone brand new bathrooms and kitchens if they agreed, but issued dire threats of severe cuts in services and big rent increases if we didn't. They made clear to their own housing staff that many of them would lose their jobs if we said no to stock transfer, but that they'd all keep their jobs working for the new housing association if we said yes. Then they sent them all door to door to persuade us. An "independent" helpline was set up to give supposedly impartial advice, yet they were entirely pro-stock transfer. When I asked where they got their funding from, turned out it was the council, the same one pushing stock transfer. Two thirds of tenants managed to be persuaded by this one sided operation and thus council housing in Plymouth ceased to exist and everything social housing wise was now run by housing associations. Similar things have happened up and down the country. Because council housing here and in many other places doesn't exist anymore, we are left having to work with and through housing associations to get more built, otherwise we would face the herculean task - given severe budget constraints - of rebuilding and re-manning council house housing departments from scratch. Working with the existing housing associations in areas like mine is probably now the easiest and more affordable option, especially since the biggest one (and also my own landlord) - Plymouth Community Homes - includes many former council housing workers amongst it's employees and management. And what was done to our council housing by a Labour council under a Labour government is yet another reason why I stopped supporting New Labour. All too many of the middle class triumphalists in Labour who believed we were all middle class now shared the disdain already widespread in the Tory party for council estates and council tenants.
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Post by Zany on May 15, 2024 18:22:57 GMT
Much of your post I would have written myself. I agree on Housing and NHS being number one. I guess the difference is in our voting choice. My vote will get me a better party than the current villains Your vote will get you nothing. Lets hope Labour wins you over because that will mean they have tackled the housing crises. Q: Would you like them to build council houses? My vote is never going to deliver a Tory victory right now. It looks like Labour will win anyway but if my vote and that of others like me finding better candidates to vote for makes a hung parliament slightly more likely, then that is exactly what I want to happen. So you have helped make me more determined not to vote Labour because that increases the chances of a hung parliament without in any way being enough to save the Tories. Fair do's. I wasn't looking to persuade you, you have made your position clear and your distrust of Starmer. I was just having a dig at you not voting at all. So would I, it seems a no brainer, an income for the government while solving the housing crises. Its not even borrowing, its investment if done properly. Its good to speak to you on here SRB. I haven't lived your life and I had no idea the pressure that was put on council house tenants to switch. No one outside that circle would ever be made aware. Wouldn't it be great to see a real re-think on this. To move away from the idea that everything can be done better by business. I know council building projects always seem to cost 5 times what they would in the private sector, but building and running are two very different things. I've never met a Labour supporter who thought getting rid of council houses was a good idea. Most I know thought sheltered housing and housing associations were council houses. Gosh I feel ignorant.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2024 20:07:41 GMT
I won't quote you zany in the interests of brevity. But I have every intention of voting. Just not Tory or Labour, nor Reform for that matter.
And during my time in the party it was not uncommon to find people who looked down their noses about council estates, and poor working class people in general. This came out into the open when Emily Thornberry mocked online some guy in a working class area displaying the union jack on his house. Mostly that kind of sneering derision stays under wraps but in the party you do get to hear a lot more of it. There is so much more I could say about that, but I promised Brevity.
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