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Post by dappy on May 1, 2024 16:51:00 GMT
I’m am not sure I understand the relevance of your post Vinny.
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Post by vinny on May 1, 2024 17:46:42 GMT
You're telling me about Nigel Farage.
I already read Niall Warry's criticisms of the man, Warry was once a chairman in UKIP and before that, in James Goldsmith's referendum party.
The thing, to bring this thread back on track, is that there's a very intolerant far left, who will abuse anyone not pro EU, anyone not perceived to be pro mass immigration, or pro trans, pro gay, pro blacks/ Asians / ethnic minority.
If you think that white characters should be played by white actors, just as black characters should be played by black actors, the extremists have it in for you just as they have it in for Laurence Fox, for J K Rowling and even John Cleese, presumably because of the Loretta bit in the Life of Brian.
There are extremists pushing gender theory.
Anyone who questions the agenda of the fringe extremists, is demonised as racist / homophobic / transphobic / Nazis, rather than just "people".
It's not transphobic to suggest that unaltered biological males should not be able to live in shelters for vulnerable women.
It's not transphobic to suggest that unaltered biological males shouldn't be put into women's prisons, if convicted.
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Post by Zany on May 1, 2024 18:27:32 GMT
The United Kingdom Independence Party was the natural result of the Maastricht Treaty being signed without a referendum. It was founded in 1993, long before large numbers of Polish economic migrants were coming. It was not founded on the basis of immigration. Their original proposal for leaving the EU was to rejoin EFTA (a free trade organisation we co founded, which has free movement of people). They gained their first three seats in Brussels in 1999 and 696k votes, they had their breakthrough in 2004, before the real impact of immigration from Eastern Europe had been recognised. 696k votes and they weren't even talking about mass immigration. The BNP who were, got 102k votes that year. 2004 they got 2,650,768 votes the BNP got 808,201. 2009 they got 2,498,226 votes, the BNP got 943,598. 2014 they got 4,376,635 the BNP got 179,694. You can pretend they were racist. You can pretend the played on fears. But they were created for democracies sake and you never understood that. The EU is governed by Commission. An unelected body the public cannot influence and steer. If they were elected, answerable to the public at the ballot box, they would have to listen to voters and we'd still be members. David Cameron promised reform, failed to deliver it, held failure up as if it were success, and tried every dirty trick, played on fears and whilst he won you over with project fear lies, he didn't fool me. The Maastricht Treaty never harmed a soul, most people couldn't even tell you what was in it. They just believed Farage when he said they lost their sovereignty and their rights. They believed the crap about the commission being an unelected quango making our laws, even though they couldn't name a single one that effected them. Farage and his team sold a dream of freedom that never existed, he waved Churchill as an emblem of being British even though Churchill spent 5 years after the war travelling Europe and binding us together in treaties and agreements. About the most the commission did without a vote for the EU parliament was agree a universal tread depth for lorry tyres. Farage spread the lie to willing ears of Ireland being told to go and vote again to get the right result. That was his worst lie. Ireland was given exemptions to the new abortion laws and asked if they would like a second vote with those exemptions in place. Which they had and the people now happy changed a no to a yes. But the biggest lie was that FoM was forced upon an unwilling government in the UK and having left we would stop immigration. My sides would split laughing if that wasn't so sad. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on May 1, 2024 19:56:11 GMT
And the Maastricht treaty may have been signed without a referendum but it wasn't ratified until after the 1992 election where the anti Maastricht parties came absolutely nowhere and was effectively electoral endorsement of it. Just like the 2019 election was electoral endorsement to leave.
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Post by vinny on May 1, 2024 20:17:41 GMT
The Maastricht Treaty created the EU, changed our relationship, transferred sovereignty from the elected to the Commission. And the rebellion against the lack of democratic consultation was ignored, then laughed at, attacked as "racist" but finally succeeded.
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Post by dappy on May 1, 2024 20:20:49 GMT
Vin
Sorry don’t seem to be on same wavelength. We were talking about Farage and his and early UKIP legacy. I don’t quite get the relevance of your post.
I agree there are extremists on both sides. One such is Fox hence being found “guilty” of Libel.
Looks like Zany is happy to discuss the merits of Brexit with you, happy to bow out here
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Post by Zany on May 1, 2024 20:23:33 GMT
The Maastricht Treaty created the EU, changed our relationship, transferred sovereignty from the elected to the Commission. And the rebellion against the lack of democratic consultation was ignored, then laughed at, attacked as "racist" but finally succeeded. No, that was the bit they made up. |
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Post by vinny on May 2, 2024 11:25:40 GMT
The Commission is the executive of the EU, the only body empowered to initiate legislation in the Parliament.
Ordinary voters cannot influence them and yet ordinary voters paid for them.
The ability to slim the organisation down, cut its powers and functions, to scrap the EU military staff...
Such options were never available to the voters of member states at the ballot box.
Had we voted for all the crap it puts out, fair enough, I'd have accepted the will of the people.
But, to be called "racist" (and I have been called "racist") for no other reason than wanting out, is an absurdity.
It shows how out of touch the Euro cult are.
Hope not Hate, ten years ago were deeply involved in a smear campaign to demonise UKIP and try to keep us in the EU.
There were assaults.
There were death threats.
Having spoken out against those assaults and threats, and having spoken in favour of democracy, I lost so called friends.
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Post by Zany on May 2, 2024 11:49:13 GMT
That's not quite how it works. Proposal made: The European Commission, which is the executive arm of the EU, has the sole right to propose new laws. Proposals can also come from the European Parliament or the Council of the European Union, but most originate from the Commission. First Reading: The proposal is submitted to either the European Parliament or the Council of the European Union (depending on the subject matter) for a first reading. The legislative body will review the proposal and may suggest amendments. Conciliation: If the Parliament and the Council cannot agree on the proposed text after the first reading, a conciliation committee is formed. This committee consists of equal numbers of representatives from the Parliament and the Council, tasked with reaching a compromise on the text. Second Reading: The agreed text resulting from the conciliation process is then submitted for a second reading to both the Parliament and the Council. They can either accept or reject the compromise text. Approval: If both the Parliament and the Council approve the text, it becomes EU law. The ability to slim the organisation down, cut its powers and functions, to scrap the EU military staff... The entire commission can be sacked by the Eu parliament. Of course individuals cannot slim down the commission, In the UK they cannot slim down the house of lords either or even the number of MP's in parliament. Have you voted for the set up of the UK parliament? Last thing I remember when we had a vote on PR, only we didn't get offered PR our parliament offered us some bizarre voting system nobody wanted or understood. That's the way in works in every 1st world country. I agree entirely. Unless your reasons were racist, such as I don't want a load of Turks coming here because they're X or Y, then you should not be called racist. Only racists should be called racist. Was that the norm or was it the hangers on? The BNP didn't get its bad name because a few fringe members attacked people, they got their name through being skinheads and wearing bovver boots. That is very sad. . |
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Post by vinny on May 2, 2024 13:59:40 GMT
How our system works: Parties propose manifestos, get elected the public have some say because they can kick a government out, government then puts policies to the vote in the Commons which then go to the unelected Lords for scrutiny. How their system works, the Commission proposes policies MEPs scrutinise. For an MEP to propose a policy he or she has to go to a committee, then make a request to the Commission, who then draw up a policy and put it to the Parliament. Their system is the other way around. Plus, the public do not get in any way to say "repeal this", "cut the budget", because the Commission don't have to listen. ............ Yes, sadly abuse, and death threats were the norm. Large numbers of UKIP candidates received threats and abuse including assaults. Even Diane James was assaulted. She was spat at. Bobby Anwar's cheek was broken as was his eye socket after he was stabbed in the face.  A journalist assaulted three younger members of the party in 2013 and was charged. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10323684/Ukip-conference-Journalist-charged-with-assault-after-attack-at-young-Ukip-party.htmlThis member's home was attacked. www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/14711810.ukip-member-fears-for-future-attacks-after-her-front-door-was-smashed-in-by-thugs/This member was assaulted:  Gerard Batten's home was attacked (his wife is an immigrant btw):  Various campaign offices were attacked too.  |
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Post by Zany on May 2, 2024 14:13:42 GMT
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 2, 2024 19:56:16 GMT
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Post by vinny on May 3, 2024 13:07:22 GMT
That is not good. I won't defend that. |
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Post by patman post on May 16, 2024 13:57:25 GMT
He was on Gogglebox the other evening (a repeat). He's very hard to like, even when he isn't spouting drivel. He is very hard to like although I did like him in Lewis. But I find him surprisingly easy to feel sorry for Should we judge actors, and other performers, by their political views and antics, or simply on their acting?
There are probably many performers I enjoy watching and listening to that I'd hate to spend five minutes with in conversation or hearing their opinions on anything outside their chosen profession.
One exception that springs to mind is Charlton Heston. But it's probably not his politics I find distracting so much as his insistence on being Charlton Heston in whatever role he was cast in...
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Post by patman post on May 16, 2024 14:14:30 GMT
How our system works: Parties propose manifestos, get elected the public have some say because they can kick a government out, government then puts policies to the vote in the Commons which then go to the unelected Lords for scrutiny. How their system works, the Commission proposes policies MEPs scrutinise. For an MEP to propose a policy he or she has to go to a committee, then make a request to the Commission, who then draw up a policy and put it to the Parliament. Their system is the other way around. Plus, the public do not get in any way to say "repeal this", "cut the budget", because the Commission don't have to listen. ............ Yes, sadly abuse, and death threats were the norm. Large numbers of UKIP candidates received threats and abuse including assaults. Even Diane James was assaulted. She was spat at. Bobby Anwar's cheek was broken as was his eye socket after he was stabbed in the face. A journalist assaulted three younger members of the party in 2013 and was charged. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10323684/Ukip-conference-Journalist-charged-with-assault-after-attack-at-young-Ukip-party.htmlThis member's home was attacked. www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/14711810.ukip-member-fears-for-future-attacks-after-her-front-door-was-smashed-in-by-thugs/This member was assaulted: Gerard Batten's home was attacked (his wife is an immigrant btw): Various campaign offices were attacked too.
(Illustrations snipped from above)
Admittedly this is from a rabidly Tory supporting newspaper, but it does show that Ukip itself was not immune to violence within its own ranks...: A medical assessment of Ukip leadership hopeful Steven Woolfe has revealed he was punched before a seizure caused him to fall and hit his head.
Sources have told the MailOnline that an examination of the MEP shows bruising on his face consistent with a punch, with contusions on the back of his head suggesting it hit the floor following his fall.
The revelation comes after fellow Ukip MEP Mike Hookem denied claims that he punched Mr Woolfe during an astonishing row.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3828482/Ukip-MEP-punched-Doctors-say-Steven-Woolfe-s-injuries-prove-attacked-suffered-just-seizure-fall.html |
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