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Post by equivocal on May 2, 2024 18:49:41 GMT
I am really struggling to rationalize what you say. Apparently many better paid jobs have gone because of automation (I assume you maintain they have not been replaced by other better paid jobs) yet minimum wage is only around two thirds of the median and less than 60% of the average, only around 5% of the workforce are paid minimum wage, and the proportion in employment has increased since the minimum wage was introduced.
Perhaps the difference in our thinking is your ' --those jobs will also go. And there will be no getting them back' and my belief replacements will be created.
Hmm. I'm thinking that the median wage has fallen and that the average wage just reflect both ends of a big gap. How this relates to the minimum wage I'm not sure. But yes you're making me re-think. Are you saying there are as many good jobs as there ever were and all the worry is for nothing. If most jobs pay more than minimum wage and unemployment is so low and its hard to attract staff, makes me wonder why we need a minimum wage. 
The first image is from the UK Parliament showing median earnings 1997 to 2023 showing 119% increase over the period and the second image from the Bank of England CPI calculator over the same period showing 89% increase over the period. I don't think this suggests real median wages have fallen
There is no doubt the UK has fallen behind similar industrialised countries in terms of real wage growth and, without doing further research (in between being dragged out to give my opinion on a car my youngest daughter is thinking of buying), I'd guess the reason is down to productivity lagging because of lack of investment. So I think, besides 'feeding the poor' and not letting the UK fall further into a low wage economy, the minimum wage encourages businesses to do what you caution against.
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Post by Orac on May 2, 2024 18:50:35 GMT
You'll be straight in at the top pay grade.
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Post by Zany on May 2, 2024 19:05:42 GMT
Hmm. I'm thinking that the median wage has fallen and that the average wage just reflect both ends of a big gap. How this relates to the minimum wage I'm not sure. But yes you're making me re-think. Are you saying there are as many good jobs as there ever were and all the worry is for nothing. If most jobs pay more than minimum wage and unemployment is so low and its hard to attract staff, makes me wonder why we need a minimum wage.
The first image is from the UK Parliament showing median earnings 1997 to 2023 showing 119% increase over the period and the second image from the Bank of England CPI calculator over the same period showing 89% increase over the period. I don't think this suggests real median wages have fallen
There is no doubt the UK has fallen behind similar industrialised countries in terms of real wage growth and, without doing further research (in between being dragged out to give my opinion on a car my youngest daughter is thinking of buying), I'd guess the reason is down to productivity lagging because of lack of investment. So I think, besides 'feeding the poor' and not letting the UK fall further into a low wage economy, the minimum wage encourages businesses to do what you caution against.
I'm very confused. The economy is in a terrible state, retail sales through the floor pubs closing at 4 a week, people not eating or drinking out and yet everything is ok in the work environment, employment at an all time low wages good as ever. Why aren't they spending. |
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Post by equivocal on May 2, 2024 19:23:17 GMT
We've just been through two years of the worst inflation in many years. I think people live up to their earnings and when a shock hits it takes them a long time to feel safe indulging in discretionary spending. Unfortunately for businesses dependent on that kind of spending they are hit with the double whammy of wages catching up with inflation and punters being afraid to spend. I haven't looked, but I'll bet food and essentials retailers are doing fine.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on May 2, 2024 19:47:13 GMT
The National Minimum Wage is the governments various trying to outsource the welfare needed to cope with its own failures to employers. But employers have a choice and sadly many of them take the 'well lets move the jobs overseas option'. Governments have choices too but sadly I can't recall one on my lifetime with a credible plan for full employment.
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