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Post by Zany on Nov 2, 2024 8:42:10 GMT
I was hoping for a glimpse of the sunlight uplands from the budget, maybe not jam today, but at least someone putting the saucepan on the stove.
But despite listening to 3 days of analysis I can find nothing.
It seems our customers feel the same. Our sales have fallen from 69% of expected to 58% of expected.
If this government wants to rebuild public services by growing the economy they really need to give some hope to the public.
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Post by dappy on Nov 2, 2024 8:54:15 GMT
The leisure industry must be a tough place to be at the moment Zany.
The country had got into a desperate state over the last few years. The budget begins the process of trying to stabilize it. Not sure what you were expecting to be honest.
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Post by RedRum on Nov 2, 2024 9:19:46 GMT
I like the idea of them going after the thieves that ripped off the country during Covid. There are £bs of pounds that could be clawed back and put towards 'rescuing' the NHS and social care.
Not enough mention of this though.
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Post by Zany on Nov 2, 2024 9:43:04 GMT
The leisure industry must be a tough place to be at the moment Zany. The country had got into a desperate state over the last few years. The budget begins the process of trying to stabilize it. Not sure what you were expecting to be honest. I was hoping for something to give the public a bit of hope, maybe some indication of how this extra borrowing was going to create economic growth. What I heard was, its all good because we're not going to make things even worse. Its fine saying you are going to increase the minimum wage, but that only effects a relatively small number of the public and does nothing for the majority who drive the economy. Its great telling the public someone else will foot the bill, but without some recovery in the economy they will still fear for their jobs and future prospects. Without some real indication the houses will become, not just more available, but more affordable, many young will continue to see just the grey plodding road ahead. The Tories gave us 14 years of growing wealth gap, where now the 30 richest families in this country have the same amount of money as 32 million other citizens. I would like to have seen that addressed, not to create communism as the local trolls would jump in with, but to adjust the imbalance a bit and create a nicer country for everyone to live in.
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Post by dappy on Nov 2, 2024 10:29:19 GMT
The leisure industry must be a tough place to be at the moment Zany. The country had got into a desperate state over the last few years. The budget begins the process of trying to stabilize it. Not sure what you were expecting to be honest. I was hoping for something to give the public a bit of hope, maybe some indication of how this extra borrowing was going to create economic growth. What I heard was, its all good because we're not going to make things even worse. Its fine saying you are going to increase the minimum wage, but that only effects a relatively small number of the public and does nothing for the majority who drive the economy. Its great telling the public someone else will foot the bill, but without some recovery in the economy they will still fear for their jobs and future prospects. Without some real indication the houses will become, not just more available, but more affordable, many young will continue to see just the grey plodding road ahead. The Tories gave us 14 years of growing wealth gap, where now the 30 richest families in this country have the same amount of money as 32 million other citizens. I would like to have seen that addressed, not to create communism as the local trolls would jump in with, but to adjust the imbalance a bit and create a nicer country for everyone to live in. With respect I’m not sure you have grasped quite what a mess the country was and still is in. Public services were in a mess, we couldn’t afford even the spending we had committed to. The country has awesome challenges with a bulge of people heading to retirement and very low new birth rates. We want to live longer at vast expense at vast expense. An excess of older people means very inefficient use of the housing stock we have and however much some would like to deny it we now recognise that we don’t get a free pass from an environmental perspective and that our current way of doing things is not sustainable. Faced with that tsunami, government of any colour has limited levers to pull. I do think the reality is that our standard of living will fall to some extent. But what levers they have they have pulled reasonably well in my view. They have protected the worse off to some extent and sought to stabilize public services and the economy and found a reasonable balance between raising funds and preserving incentives to invest by for example keeping CGT rates below expectations. I don’t inevitably agree with every measure and this is just the first step on a very long and very difficult road in what might well be at best managed decline, but I was reasonably encouraged by a return to serious government rather than government by tabloid headline.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Nov 2, 2024 10:54:50 GMT
I like the idea of them going after the thieves that ripped off the country during Covid. There are £bs of pounds that could be clawed back and put towards 'rescuing' the NHS and social care. Not enough mention of this though. Agreed on both points. But in the big picture of an attack on jobs budget that's small pickings
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Post by Zany on Nov 2, 2024 11:05:22 GMT
I was hoping for something to give the public a bit of hope, maybe some indication of how this extra borrowing was going to create economic growth. What I heard was, its all good because we're not going to make things even worse. Its fine saying you are going to increase the minimum wage, but that only effects a relatively small number of the public and does nothing for the majority who drive the economy. Its great telling the public someone else will foot the bill, but without some recovery in the economy they will still fear for their jobs and future prospects. Without some real indication the houses will become, not just more available, but more affordable, many young will continue to see just the grey plodding road ahead. The Tories gave us 14 years of growing wealth gap, where now the 30 richest families in this country have the same amount of money as 32 million other citizens. I would like to have seen that addressed, not to create communism as the local trolls would jump in with, but to adjust the imbalance a bit and create a nicer country for everyone to live in. With respect I’m not sure you have grasped quite what a mess the country was and still is in. Public services were in a mess, we couldn’t afford even the spending we had committed to. The country has awesome challenges with a bulge of people heading to retirement and very low new birth rates. We want to live longer at vast expense at vast expense. An excess of older people means very inefficient use of the housing stock we have and however much some would like to deny it we now recognise that we don’t get a free pass from an environmental perspective and that our current way of doing things is not sustainable. Faced with that tsunami, government of any colour has limited levers to pull. I do think the reality is that our standard of living will fall to some extent. But what levers they have they have pulled reasonably well in my view. They have protected the worse off to some extent and sought to stabilize public services and the economy and found a reasonable balance between raising funds and preserving incentives to invest by for example keeping CGT rates below expectations. I don’t inevitably agree with every measure and this is just the first step on a very long and very difficult road in what might well be at best managed decline, but I was reasonably encouraged by a return to serious government rather than government by tabloid headline. With respect. The tax is to cover the mess the country is in. The borrowing is supposed to fix the economy, that's what we were told. As for not having grasped how bad the economy is, before Covid my company had a two million pound expansion and contingency fund) that's all gone, we are now spending money we don't really have trying to diversify and appeal to a bigger market just to survive. And I say survive advisedly, its that bad. So I watch the economy on a scale you can't begin to imagine in your cocoon. IMO, they cannot protect the worst off simply by saying businesses have to find more money. For every business that can find the money another will fail, putting evermore people into poverty. I assume you are aware that 800 pubs became insolvent and 500 closed last year and nearly 2,000 restaurants went bankrupt. Yet still you hold to your mantra that businesses are not 'The poor' and can just find the money and pass the costs on. You need growth, or at the very least recovery and confidence, or everything else is just sticking plasters.
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Post by Zany on Nov 2, 2024 11:09:09 GMT
I like the idea of them going after the thieves that ripped off the country during Covid. There are £bs of pounds that could be clawed back and put towards 'rescuing' the NHS and social care. Not enough mention of this though. I fear it becomes another 5 year £20 million pound enquiry that recovers nothing as everyone involved has left, gone bankrupt, has an excuse. But lessons will be learned and business will face another tranche of regulations and box ticking that will do nothing to stop the criminals but will sound good to the public.
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Post by dappy on Nov 2, 2024 11:35:59 GMT
I am aware leisure is a very tough sector of the economy to be in at the moment Zany. It must be hard for you to see what you have worked hard for struggle to survive through no fault of your own.
You are getting aggressive and personal again. I have learnt , perhaps too slowly, to disengage when that happens. I will leave you with the thought that no government of whatever colour has the levers to fix the economy given all the headwinds I outlined earlier (I didn’t even mention the massive harm we did to our living standards through Brexit, it is far from impossible that Trump may cause the world a further hit starting next week.) All any government of any colour can do is pull what levers it has to nudge the economy in the right direction. It feels to me that they have come up with a reasonable package within the financial, societal and political constraints they face.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Nov 2, 2024 11:40:13 GMT
I am aware leisure is a very tough sector of the economy to be in at the moment Zany. It must be hard for you to see what you have worked hard for struggle to survive through no fault of your own. You are getting aggressive and personal again. I have learnt , perhaps too slowly, to disengage when that happens. I will leave you with the thought that no government of whatever colour has the levers to fix the economy given all the headwinds I outlined earlier (I didn’t even mention the massive harm we did to our living standards through Brexit, it is far from impossible that Trump may cause the world a further hit starting next week.) All any government of any colour can do is pull what levers it has to nudge the economy in the right direction. It feels to me that they have come up with a reasonable package within the financial, societal and political constraints they face. But it must be galling to Zany to see this government hand another economic advantage to foreign companies and those that get rich importing from them.
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Post by Zany on Nov 2, 2024 12:28:20 GMT
I am aware leisure is a very tough sector of the economy to be in at the moment Zany. It must be hard for you to see what you have worked hard for struggle to survive through no fault of your own. You are getting aggressive and personal again. I have learnt , perhaps too slowly, to disengage when that happens. I will leave you with the thought that no government of whatever colour has the levers to fix the economy given all the headwinds I outlined earlier (I didn’t even mention the massive harm we did to our living standards through Brexit, it is far from impossible that Trump may cause the world a further hit starting next week.) All any government of any colour can do is pull what levers it has to nudge the economy in the right direction. It feels to me that they have come up with a reasonable package within the financial, societal and political constraints they face. You might consider why that only appears to be the case with yourself. Maybe opening your post with the idea that I am unaware of the state of the country was not a good starting point. On the rest of your post above. Yes I recognise that Brexit, Covid, Ukraine are strong headwinds, but I'm sure you are very aware of the added mismanagement the Tories bought along (I offer you evidence item 1, Liz Truss) However the Labour party were not elected on a manifesto of "there's nothing we can do" So to emphasise, I am not looking for a quick fix so much as a boost in public confidence that the future looks brighter. That confidence encourages spending which encourages investment, which causes growth, which builds confidence. You mention the EU. Maybe Labour should have mentioned that we are looking at a better relationship there, more often. Instead of constantly telling us how bad things are followed by a budget that said we hope to balance the books and not make things any more shitty than they are. Finally as someone who has always stated he would happily pay more income tax, this is because income tax is based on ability to pay, so for the first 12 years of this business I would have paid a lot more, but now I am taking nothing out I would pay nothing. Taxing my business on a basis that is not related to ability to pay feels very OLD labour to me.
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Post by Zany on Nov 2, 2024 12:30:19 GMT
I am aware leisure is a very tough sector of the economy to be in at the moment Zany. It must be hard for you to see what you have worked hard for struggle to survive through no fault of your own. You are getting aggressive and personal again. I have learnt , perhaps too slowly, to disengage when that happens. I will leave you with the thought that no government of whatever colour has the levers to fix the economy given all the headwinds I outlined earlier (I didn’t even mention the massive harm we did to our living standards through Brexit, it is far from impossible that Trump may cause the world a further hit starting next week.) All any government of any colour can do is pull what levers it has to nudge the economy in the right direction. It feels to me that they have come up with a reasonable package within the financial, societal and political constraints they face. But it must be galling to Zany to see this government hand another economic advantage to foreign companies and those that get rich importing from them. It certainly pushes the levers in the wrong direction. And I really thought this government might sort out business rates to better reflect the modern economy.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2024 12:40:30 GMT
Anyone watch Reeves on Kuensberg earlier. Absolutely appalling. No defence of attacking jobs, hospices and GPs other than to say over and over that she was fixing public services.
With non logic like that she could have faux justified stealing all private pension funds or indeed any stupid policy.
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Post by Zany on Nov 3, 2024 12:54:42 GMT
Anyone watch Reeves on Kuensberg earlier. Absolutely appalling. No defence of attacking jobs, hospices and GPs other than to say over and over that she was fixing public services. With non logic like that she could have faux justified stealing all private pension funds or indeed any stupid policy. I haven't seen it, but the interviews I have seen annoyed me for their lack of content or backbone. If you feel you're justified in doing something have the courage to defend it. They remind me of the Tories wheeling out Grant Shapps every week to say he didn't know, hadn't been briefed, was unable to comment. I really hoped for better.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2024 12:56:56 GMT
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