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Post by Zany on Sept 3, 2024 18:55:25 GMT
Problem with windfarms is they use parts which wear out and cannot be recycled. They're not as "green" as they first appear. All those turbine blades went to landfill. There was also a huge carbon dioxide cost in making them. Gosh some indestructible material buried under sand, its as bad as Granite. Far worse than pumping Co2 into the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels.
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Post by vinny on Sept 4, 2024 9:29:28 GMT
1) Fossil fuels are burned to create wind turbines. 30% of the carbon footprint of a wind turbine is steel. The other 70% is composite materials including glass reinforced plastic. CO2 is pumped into the atmosphere still, at production stage.
2) Are there no other materials that could be used, which would create a recyclable product, or a repairable product?
3) Wind power at present has not produced enough consistent power to replace the amount of power we put into the grid 20 years ago. The cost is very high, including the cost of dealing with the waste byproducts, and it is pushing up people's bills.
4) If you really want to address climate change, you need to pull CO2 from the atmosphere and turn it into fuel. There's a high energy cost in doing that, but it can be done. Best way to do it, solar, not wind.
Our country is not best placed for solar power, but solar is still a better option than wind.
A good alternative to the large conventional power stations we're still using would be Thorium nuclear power stations as Thorium reactors do not produce thermonuclear weapons grade byproducts and cannot melt down either. When fusion is commercially available, then we should build fusion power stations as well.
Meanwhile: Work with the Commonwealth.
Set up solar power stations in hot politically stable countries to power carbon capture equipment. They can then commercially capture and transport carbon dioxide as a fuel precursor whilst at the coast of Commonwealth nations, commercial hydrogen electrolysis takes place along with synthesis of hydrocarbon fuels to create a closed cycle renewable fuel that every conventional car can run on.
Think big.
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Post by Zany on Sept 4, 2024 19:29:26 GMT
1) Fossil fuels are burned to create wind turbines. 30% of the carbon footprint of a wind turbine is steel. The other 70% is composite materials including glass reinforced plastic. CO2 is pumped into the atmosphere still, at production stage. 2) Are there no other materials that could be used, which would create a recyclable product, or a repairable product? 3) Wind power at present has not produced enough consistent power to replace the amount of power we put into the grid 20 years ago. The cost is very high, including the cost of dealing with the waste byproducts, and it is pushing up people's bills. 4) If you really want to address climate change, you need to pull CO2 from the atmosphere and turn it into fuel. There's a high energy cost in doing that, but it can be done. Best way to do it, solar, not wind. Our country is not best placed for solar power, but solar is still a better option than wind. A good alternative to the large conventional power stations we're still using would be Thorium nuclear power stations as Thorium reactors do not produce thermonuclear weapons grade byproducts and cannot melt down either. When fusion is commercially available, then we should build fusion power stations as well. Meanwhile: Work with the Commonwealth. Set up solar power stations in hot politically stable countries to power carbon capture equipment. They can then commercially capture and transport carbon dioxide as a fuel precursor whilst at the coast of Commonwealth nations, commercial hydrogen electrolysis takes place along with synthesis of hydrocarbon fuels to create a closed cycle renewable fuel that every conventional car can run on. Think big. 1, A tiny amount in for a massive amount out. Apply some maths when working out what's good or bad. 2, Not that have the life length and the strength. 3, You're about a decade out of date. only 27% of our electricity came from burning fossil fuels in the last year and every year it shrinks. Wind power is now cheaper than Gas. 4, Not necessarily. Plants already pull Co2 out of the atmosphere, we just need to put in less than they take out. Horses for courses. Morocco for Solar, UK for Wind. Nuclear has been available for a long time now and its too expensive long term. Its day has come and gone. Renewable is just getting better and better.
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Post by vinny on Sept 4, 2024 21:51:36 GMT
A huge amount of our electricity comes from burning fossil fuels. How do you think biomass gets here?
Diesel lorries in the USA, diesel trains, oil powered freighters. Our green credentials are a lie.
And all the carbon dioxide involved in carting gear to do with wind farms around too. Yet fibreglass/ carbon fibre repair tech isn't used to repair turbine blades. Wind is intermittent, not constant. Sometimes it is too strong to safely operate turbines sometimes too weak.
Tidal energy is constant, but not adequately harnessed.
And there's a fixation on using the wrong materials.
Simplify the process of making wind turbines. Use recyclable materials such as aluminium for the turbine blades.
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Post by Zany on Sept 4, 2024 21:53:54 GMT
A huge amount of our electricity comes from burning fossil fuels. How do you think biomass gets here? Diesel lorries in the USA, diesel trains, oil powered freighters. Our green credentials are a lie. And all the carbon dioxide involved in carting gear to do with wind farms around too. Yet fibreglass/ carbon fibre repair tech isn't used to repair turbine blades. Wind is intermittent, not constant. Sometimes it is too strong to safely operate turbines sometimes too weak. Tidal energy is constant, but not adequately harnessed. And there's a fixation on using the wrong materials. Simplify the process of making wind turbines. Use recyclable materials such as aluminium for the turbine blades. Biomass you say, come on then Vinny how much of our energy comes from biomass
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Post by vinny on Sept 5, 2024 6:52:22 GMT
6 percent. And government classes it as being carbon neutral without taking into the carbon footprint of the supply chain, or considering the carbon sponge effect the trees would have if they hadn't been cut down.
We should have continued using coal UNTIL sufficient viable alternatives were in place. Amber Rudd has a lot to answer for. She is responsible for the energy fiasco we now have, and she left Parliament five years ago.
Local coal has a lower carbon footprint than imported coal due to lower supply chain carbon footprint, and therefore steel production with local coal is viable. She trashed our steel industry too. I could blame the EU, but our politicians implemented the coal divestment policy even after we voted to leave. And they implemented it without watt for watt replacement in the grid. We are still playing catch up a decade on.
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Post by Zany on Sept 5, 2024 7:11:39 GMT
6 percent. And government classes it as being carbon neutral without taking into the carbon footprint of the supply chain, or considering the carbon sponge effect the trees would have if they hadn't been cut down. We should have continued using coal UNTIL sufficient viable alternatives were in place. Amber Rudd has a lot to answer for. She is responsible for the energy fiasco we now have, and she left Parliament five years ago. Local coal has a lower carbon footprint than imported coal due to lower supply chain carbon footprint, and therefore steel production with local coal is viable. She trashed our steel industry too. I could blame the EU, but our politicians implemented the coal divestment policy even after we voted to leave. And they implemented it without watt for watt replacement in the grid. We are still playing catch up a decade on. You don't need to count the carbon sponge effect if you are replacing the cut plants with new ones. Carbon footprint of supply chain is not counted for any energy. If it was wind power would do even better. We have very little local coal and its very expensive to get out because the seems are so deep. We do have viable alternatives, the lights haven't gone off despite the doom predictions of the doubters, no rolling blackouts. You are confusing burning coal to melt iron with burning coal to make electricity. They are not the same. The steel industry is collapsing because it cannot compete with China without government subsidies, it is the withdrawal of those that caused Tata to pull out. Separately, production of electricity has kept up with demand, it is demand that has fallen with the invention of energy saving devices such as LED lighting. It was 36Gw in 2012 and its 29Gw now.
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Post by montegriffo on Sept 5, 2024 9:11:52 GMT
6 percent. And government classes it as being carbon neutral without taking into the carbon footprint of the supply chain, or considering the carbon sponge effect the trees would have if they hadn't been cut down. We should have continued using coal UNTIL sufficient viable alternatives were in place. Amber Rudd has a lot to answer for. She is responsible for the energy fiasco we now have, and she left Parliament five years ago. Local coal has a lower carbon footprint than imported coal due to lower supply chain carbon footprint, and therefore steel production with local coal is viable. She trashed our steel industry too. I could blame the EU, but our politicians implemented the coal divestment policy even after we voted to leave. And they implemented it without watt for watt replacement in the grid. We are still playing catch up a decade on. Between them, Arthur Scargil and Margaret Thatcher destroyed our coal industry. Scargil by stubbornly pursuing an unwinnable strike and Thatcher due to her globalist policies which led her to buy cheaper Chinese coal. Coal would be too expensive to start up again now. All the easy to get at coal has been mined and the deep mines are flooded. A good thing too, coal is a 19th century fuel. It's filthy, poisonous and very unpleasant and dangerous to extract. The age of coal is over. Good riddance.
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Post by Zany on Sept 5, 2024 18:23:59 GMT
6 percent. And government classes it as being carbon neutral without taking into the carbon footprint of the supply chain, or considering the carbon sponge effect the trees would have if they hadn't been cut down. We should have continued using coal UNTIL sufficient viable alternatives were in place. Amber Rudd has a lot to answer for. She is responsible for the energy fiasco we now have, and she left Parliament five years ago. Local coal has a lower carbon footprint than imported coal due to lower supply chain carbon footprint, and therefore steel production with local coal is viable. She trashed our steel industry too. I could blame the EU, but our politicians implemented the coal divestment policy even after we voted to leave. And they implemented it without watt for watt replacement in the grid. We are still playing catch up a decade on. Between them, Arthur Scargil and Margaret Thatcher destroyed our coal industry. Scargil by stubbornly pursuing an unwinnable strike and Thatcher due to her globalist policies which led her to buy cheaper Chinese coal. Coal would be too expensive to start up again now. All the easy to get at coal has been mined and the deep mines are flooded. A good thing too, coal is a 19th century fuel. It's filthy, poisonous and very unpleasant and dangerous to extract. The age of coal is over. Good riddance. It was Argentinian coal at the time, but your principle stands. I would point out that the coal miners went on strike for more money in the middle of WW2. I mean seriously guys.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Sept 5, 2024 20:20:33 GMT
They had a reason and ultimately were judged to have been right
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Post by Zany on Sept 5, 2024 21:16:57 GMT
They had a reason and ultimately were judged to have been right Who had a reason and was proved right?
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Sept 6, 2024 10:31:53 GMT
They had a reason and ultimately were judged to have been right Who had a reason and was proved right? The mine owners at Betteshanger were, on a pretext, refusing to pay the minimum wage and abusing the wartime regulations to get away with it. About a year later all the miners that were convicted received full pardons with all fines refunded.
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Post by Zany on Sept 6, 2024 18:49:40 GMT
Who had a reason and was proved right? The mine owners at Betteshanger were, on a pretext, refusing to pay the minimum wage and abusing the wartime regulations to get away with it. About a year later all the miners that were convicted received full pardons with all fines refunded. Thanks Steve. I have only ever seen the strike itself mentioned outside of the fact it happened in the war.
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Post by vinny on Sept 9, 2024 7:55:39 GMT
6 percent. And government classes it as being carbon neutral without taking into the carbon footprint of the supply chain, or considering the carbon sponge effect the trees would have if they hadn't been cut down. We should have continued using coal UNTIL sufficient viable alternatives were in place. Amber Rudd has a lot to answer for. She is responsible for the energy fiasco we now have, and she left Parliament five years ago. Local coal has a lower carbon footprint than imported coal due to lower supply chain carbon footprint, and therefore steel production with local coal is viable. She trashed our steel industry too. I could blame the EU, but our politicians implemented the coal divestment policy even after we voted to leave. And they implemented it without watt for watt replacement in the grid. We are still playing catch up a decade on. Between them, Arthur Scargil and Margaret Thatcher destroyed our coal industry. Scargil by stubbornly pursuing an unwinnable strike and Thatcher due to her globalist policies which led her to buy cheaper Chinese coal. Coal would be too expensive to start up again now. All the easy to get at coal has been mined and the deep mines are flooded. A good thing too, coal is a 19th century fuel. It's filthy, poisonous and very unpleasant and dangerous to extract. The age of coal is over. Good riddance. None of which addresses the point. Biomass is even filthier when it is transported half way across the world by diesel trucks and bunker oil powered freighters.
Coal, when mined locally, and then de-sulphurised, is not as bad for the environment. And as a stopgap until SUFFICIENT WATTAGE of alternative renewable power is in the grid, and sufficient hydrogen available to steel making (hydrogen powered steel production is possible), coal mining should have been continued with.
It wasn't, because of the stupidity of both EU and UK politicians who pushed ahead with divestment before there was a viable alternative.
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Sept 9, 2024 8:23:11 GMT
In the case of the UK we ran out of affordably minable coal
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