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Post by Zany on Jul 17, 2024 21:29:50 GMT
The point surely is that Wales wouldn't be reliant on 3rd party funds if governed properly; it would generate its own keep, like Ireland and many others have Why are so many Brit Nats so insistent on taking pops at others for being too reliant on them, while preventing them from actually gaining self-reliance? If such were true then Wales would be empty as natural attrition did its work. When the slate and Tin and Copper ran out the families would starve and leave. Maybe we should let capitalism rule.
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borgr0
Observer
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Posts: 1,188
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Post by borgr0 on Jul 17, 2024 22:07:16 GMT
Oh, so they should be reliant on the English purse string and be prevented from doing any better, because their rulers says so
And they should be thankful for it, because otherwise they should starve.
Sounds just like the English logic behind the fucking Irish famine..
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Post by Amadan on Jul 18, 2024 6:03:53 GMT
they said something along similar lines regarding ireland , or Malta. According to former British prime minister Theresa may , Malta was proof the size of a country does not limit its ambition or impact on the world stage. Malta is smaller than the island or arran , its population smaller than Edinburghs , and its GDP 5% of Scotlands. When Malta became independent of the British in 1964 , they asked how it would cope. I think Wales problems aren't down to its size , its employment , its costly services and population issues. These are symptoms of how badly the uk has run it , and labour have run devolution. As for ireland , how have they got on since leaving the uk...? Big difference between these two examples and Wales. They don't rely on a third party for their funds. Several other lesser differences as well. eh? The welsh economy is bigger than Maltas , and my point about ireland was that under British rule , coincidentally ireland was an economic basket case prior to independence. The big difference is that both examples are no longer ruled by your parliament. The welsh , like scotland , dont rely on Westminster for their funds. All taxation and money is taken from them , similar to us , and a few pennies handed back for British labour to waste , like for example the £30 million they have just wasted on the disaster that was the twenty mile an hour speed limit , which im hearing has now been scrapped after much damage and outrage. What other differences are you talking about ?
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Post by Amadan on Jul 18, 2024 6:07:49 GMT
The point surely is that Wales wouldn't be reliant on 3rd party funds if governed properly; it would generate its own keep, like Ireland and many others have Why are so many Brit Nats so insistent on taking pops at others for being too reliant on them, while preventing them from actually gaining self-reliance? If such were true then Wales would be empty as natural attrition did its work. When the slate and Tin and Copper ran out the families would starve and leave. Maybe we should let capitalism rule. eh? The same country , that is England under its British guise , that told India , one of the worlds most prosperous countries ( formerly the Mughal empire) that they were too poor to survive independently , while stealing £45 trillion from them over two centuries , still telling colonies that same guff? How Britain stole $45 trillion from India And lied about it.
There is a story that is commonly told in Britain that the colonisation of India – as horrible as it may have been – was not of any major economic benefit to Britain itself. If anything, the administration of India was a cost to Britain. So the fact that the empire was sustained for so long – the story goes – was a gesture of Britain’s benevolence.
New research by the renowned economist Utsa Patnaik – just published by Columbia University Press – deals a crushing blow to this narrative. Drawing on nearly two centuries of detailed data on tax and trade, Patnaik calculated that Britain drained a total of nearly $45 trillion from India during the period 1765 to 1938.
www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
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Post by Zany on Jul 18, 2024 6:10:34 GMT
Oh, so they should be reliant on the English purse string and be prevented from doing any better, because their rulers says so And they should be thankful for it, because otherwise they should starve. Sounds just like the English logic behind the fucking Irish famine.. How does needing help prevent them from doing better? I did not say they should be grateful for it or starve, I said nothing even close to that. The Irish potato famine was terrible because they got no help. The exact opposite of helping them.
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Post by Zany on Jul 18, 2024 6:22:47 GMT
Big difference between these two examples and Wales. They don't rely on a third party for their funds. Several other lesser differences as well. eh? The welsh economy is bigger than Maltas , and my point about ireland was that under British rule , coincidentally Ireland was an economic basket case prior to independence. The big difference is that both examples are no longer ruled by your parliament. The welsh , like scotland , dont rely on Westminster for their funds. All taxation and money is taken from them , similar to us , and a few pennies handed back for British labour to waste , like for example the £30 million they have just wasted on the disaster that was the twenty mile an hour speed limit , which im hearing has now been scrapped after much damage and outrage. What other differences are you talking about ? You misunderstand me, my point was that Wales is performing poorly because it does not receive enough funds from central government. To me whether that is more than Wales makes or less than Wales makes is a mute point. I agree with you on the 20mph speed limit debacle, but its not the reason Wales struggles. Other differences that play against Wales are things like its weather affecting its desirability as a tourist destination or a place to live. This also makes it less popular for business who want to attract much sort after high skilled specialists. BTW. Scotland would do far better under MY government, Vote emperor Zany into power and just see how much better.
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Post by Zany on Jul 18, 2024 6:24:33 GMT
If such were true then Wales would be empty as natural attrition did its work. When the slate and Tin and Copper ran out the families would starve and leave. Maybe we should let capitalism rule. eh? The same country , that is England under its British guise , that told India , one of the worlds most prosperous countries ( formerly the Mughal empire) that they were too poor to survive independently , while stealing £45 trillion from them over two centuries , still telling colonies that same guff? How Britain stole $45 trillion from India And lied about it.
There is a story that is commonly told in Britain that the colonisation of India – as horrible as it may have been – was not of any major economic benefit to Britain itself. If anything, the administration of India was a cost to Britain. So the fact that the empire was sustained for so long – the story goes – was a gesture of Britain’s benevolence.
New research by the renowned economist Utsa Patnaik – just published by Columbia University Press – deals a crushing blow to this narrative. Drawing on nearly two centuries of detailed data on tax and trade, Patnaik calculated that Britain drained a total of nearly $45 trillion from India during the period 1765 to 1938.
www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-indiaSorry this is before my time.
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Post by Amadan on Jul 18, 2024 6:45:20 GMT
eh? The welsh economy is bigger than Maltas , and my point about ireland was that under British rule , coincidentally Ireland was an economic basket case prior to independence. The big difference is that both examples are no longer ruled by your parliament. The welsh , like scotland , dont rely on Westminster for their funds. All taxation and money is taken from them , similar to us , and a few pennies handed back for British labour to waste , like for example the £30 million they have just wasted on the disaster that was the twenty mile an hour speed limit , which im hearing has now been scrapped after much damage and outrage. What other differences are you talking about ? You misunderstand me, my point was that Wales is performing poorly because it does not receive enough funds from central government. To me whether that is more than Wales makes or less than Wales makes is a mute point. I agree with you on the 20mph speed limit debacle, but its not the reason Wales struggles. Other differences that play against Wales are things like its weather affecting its desirability as a tourist destination or a place to live. This also makes it less popular for business who want to attract much sort after high skilled specialists. BTW. Scotland would do far better under MY government, Vote emperor Zany into power and just see how much better. I dont misunderstand you at all. Typical new labour excuse , blame central government for their mess. We see it across the uk , from council level , to devolved , to Westminster, when new labour are in power , they are hopeless. Wales shouldn't need to go begging from Westminster is my point. rubbish. Scotland arguably has the worst weather in the uk , and yet after the pandemic , up to the last figures we have in 2023 , scotland recovered in terms of tourist numbers and tourist spending better than the uk as a whole , with figures up compared to pre pandemic in 2019 , while the uk was down. People dont come to England for the weather either zany. you make a lot of insinuations zany and bandy about a lot of unsubstantiated nonsense , but the fact is that 65 nations left London rule and I cant think of anyone of them that are faring worse than what they were under Westminster rule , or more importantly want to come back such was the disaster of westmiinster rule. The welsh clearly have a lot of problems , but their root cause is not being in control of their own country to fix the problems .
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Post by Amadan on Jul 18, 2024 6:47:48 GMT
eh? The same country , that is England under its British guise , that told India , one of the worlds most prosperous countries ( formerly the Mughal empire) that they were too poor to survive independently , while stealing £45 trillion from them over two centuries , still telling colonies that same guff? How Britain stole $45 trillion from India And lied about it.
There is a story that is commonly told in Britain that the colonisation of India – as horrible as it may have been – was not of any major economic benefit to Britain itself. If anything, the administration of India was a cost to Britain. So the fact that the empire was sustained for so long – the story goes – was a gesture of Britain’s benevolence.
New research by the renowned economist Utsa Patnaik – just published by Columbia University Press – deals a crushing blow to this narrative. Drawing on nearly two centuries of detailed data on tax and trade, Patnaik calculated that Britain drained a total of nearly $45 trillion from India during the period 1765 to 1938.
www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-indiaSorry this is before my time. side swerve. The post of course is the welsh are simply being told the same as the Indians , while Westminster picks welsh pockets. they might have half a chance like ireland or Malta if they didnt have the gigantic westminster leech sucking on them.
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Post by Zany on Jul 18, 2024 7:11:24 GMT
You misunderstand me, my point was that Wales is performing poorly because it does not receive enough funds from central government. To me whether that is more than Wales makes or less than Wales makes is a mute point. I agree with you on the 20mph speed limit debacle, but its not the reason Wales struggles. Other differences that play against Wales are things like its weather affecting its desirability as a tourist destination or a place to live. This also makes it less popular for business who want to attract much sort after high skilled specialists. BTW. Scotland would do far better under MY government, Vote emperor Zany into power and just see how much better. I dont misunderstand you at all. Typical new labour excuse , blame central government for their mess. We see it across the uk , from council level , to devolved , to Westminster, when new labour are in power , they are hopeless. Wales shouldn't need to go begging from Westminster is my point. rubbish. Scotland arguably has the worst weather in the uk , and yet after the pandemic , up to the last figures we have in 2023 , scotland recovered in terms of tourist numbers and tourist spending better than the uk as a whole , with figures up compared to pre pandemic in 2019 , while the uk was down. People dont come to England for the weather either zany. you make a lot of insinuations zany and bandy about a lot of unsubstantiated nonsense , but the fact is that 65 nations left London rule and I cant think of anyone of them that are faring worse than what they were under Westminster rule , or more importantly want to come back such was the disaster of westmiinster rule. The welsh clearly have a lot of problems , but their root cause is not being in control of their own country to fix the problems . Labour councils tend to be elected in poorer areas because for some reason the poor seem to think Labour care more about poor people. Consequently they also tend to be the councils who struggle to collect enough tax to cover the needs of the community they represent. Its simple maths. Its the reason central government takes 80% of local taxes and re-distributes them. Scotland certainly does not share Wales poor weather. Wales has an average rainfall of 55 inches a year. Scotland is nearly half that with 31 inches. But even so Scotland suffers for the same reasons, weather remoteness etc making it hard to persuade the big hitters to move their corporates there. If Scotland or Wales wishes to break free from the UK they have my blessing. I would like them to stay, but it should be their decision. However at the last referendum Scotland voted by a small margin to remain for better or worse.
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Post by Zany on Jul 18, 2024 7:18:42 GMT
Sorry this is before my time. side swerve. The post of course is the welsh are simply being told the same as the Indians , while Westminster picks welsh pockets. they might have half a chance like ireland or Malta if they didnt have the gigantic westminster leech sucking on them. I just think its difficult to compare the current government with the East India company and the government of the 1800's The whole world is a very different place. My post certainly was not what you wish it to be. I was agreeing with you. Wales is forced to contribute to Westminster and receives back less money than is necessary for its needs. As far as what Wales contributes and receives. The figures available are. Wales raised £29.5billion in taxes and received £43billion
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Post by Amadan on Jul 21, 2024 11:36:56 GMT
I dont misunderstand you at all. Typical new labour excuse , blame central government for their mess. We see it across the uk , from council level , to devolved , to Westminster, when new labour are in power , they are hopeless. Wales shouldn't need to go begging from Westminster is my point. rubbish. Scotland arguably has the worst weather in the uk , and yet after the pandemic , up to the last figures we have in 2023 , scotland recovered in terms of tourist numbers and tourist spending better than the uk as a whole , with figures up compared to pre pandemic in 2019 , while the uk was down. People dont come to England for the weather either zany. you make a lot of insinuations zany and bandy about a lot of unsubstantiated nonsense , but the fact is that 65 nations left London rule and I cant think of anyone of them that are faring worse than what they were under Westminster rule , or more importantly want to come back such was the disaster of westmiinster rule. The welsh clearly have a lot of problems , but their root cause is not being in control of their own country to fix the problems . Labour councils tend to be elected in poorer areas because for some reason the poor seem to think Labour care more about poor people. what come first though ? poverty , or labour? In my experience , labour politicians tend to drag areas down.
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Post by Amadan on Jul 21, 2024 11:45:41 GMT
side swerve. The post of course is the welsh are simply being told the same as the Indians , while Westminster picks welsh pockets. they might have half a chance like ireland or Malta if they didnt have the gigantic westminster leech sucking on them. I just think its difficult to compare the current government with the East India company and the government of the 1800's The whole world is a very different place. My post certainly was not what you wish it to be. I was agreeing with you. Wales is forced to contribute to Westminster and receives back less money than is necessary for its needs. As far as what Wales contributes and receives. The figures available are. Wales raised £29.5billion in taxes and received £43billion If you cared to read the article about what the uk did to the Indians , they were told as well over two centuries they were running a deficit , and were being subsidised by London , while you British stole trillions from them. So the point is it appears to be the standard claim from colonisers to the colony . The Labour Party has run Wales from the devolved government for 25 years , and westminster has run Wales since the political union of the 16th century. I say union........which is laughable , as even the English administrators in Wales who ran the county on behalf of the crown knew nothing about it. so after 25 years of devolution ,under the British Labour Party , and nearly five hundred years of "union" , you are telling me despite all this time , the British still haven't managed to get Wales into a healthy shape? Doesn't say much good about your union does it?
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Post by Amadan on Jul 21, 2024 11:54:25 GMT
I dont misunderstand you at all. Typical new labour excuse , blame central government for their mess. We see it across the uk , from council level , to devolved , to Westminster, when new labour are in power , they are hopeless. The welsh clearly have a lot of problems , but their root cause is not being in control of their own country to fix the problems . Scotland certainly does not share Wales poor weather. Wales has an average rainfall of 55 inches a year. Scotland is nearly half that with 31 inches. But even so Scotland suffers for the same reasons, weather remoteness etc making it hard to persuade the big hitters to move their corporates there. You implied part of Wales economic problems were down to the weather. If weather is a big part in how rich countries are and how well their economies perform , how come the top ten richest countries in Europe are all central or Northern European countries , and not the Mediterranean countries? In fact , the richer countries like ireland , or the scandianvians , also tend to have the worst weather as well.?
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Post by Zany on Jul 21, 2024 16:41:23 GMT
Labour councils tend to be elected in poorer areas because for some reason the poor seem to think Labour care more about poor people. what come first though ? poverty , or labour? In my experience , labour politicians tend to drag areas down. Poverty. As I explained, Labour tend to get elected in poorer areas where people believe Labour are likely to be more sympathetic. 'Your experience' is a meaningless phrase here.
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