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Post by walterpaisley on Apr 22, 2024 6:54:16 GMT
I looked into heat pumps, along with alsorts of other green ways of heating my house, generating power, etc.
A very pleasant woman came out from the County Council to run through the options.
My house is a 250 year old terraced cottage in a strictly controlled conservation zone ("World Heritage Site").
Heat Pump? Sorry - no cavity walls, no double glazing, insufficient wall area.
Ground Source Heat Pump? Same issues, plus the immediate geology is wrong.
Solar Panels? There's a south facing roof - which is ideal - but Conservation rules won't allow it.
All a little annoying, but no one can say I didn't go through the options..
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Post by Zany on Apr 22, 2024 7:03:58 GMT
We keep our bedroom windows open all night summer and winter. I like fresh air. They are therefore colder than the rest of the house. Heat pumps are brilliant, but not miraculous. My home is very well insulated but I'd guess the difference in a less well insulated home is the same for heat pumps as any other form of heating. That is to say you need more of them to keep a poorly insulated house warm. Yes, and I imagine the tendency towards more open-plan design in modern homes makes them a better fit for your kind of system. Good point, my home is much different to when I purchased it and nearly all the ground floor is open plan. Though my art room for example is separate but stays warm with just the door left ajar even though it doesn't have its own heat pump. You can add small fan through walls to move air around, but haven't felt the need.
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Post by Zany on Apr 22, 2024 7:12:46 GMT
I looked into heat pumps, along with alsorts of other green ways of heating my house, generating power, etc. A very pleasant woman came out from the County Council to run through the options. My house is a 250 year old terraced cottage in a strictly controlled conservation zone ("World Heritage Site"). Heat Pump? Sorry - no cavity walls, no double glazing, insufficient wall area. Ground Source Heat Pump? Same issues, plus the immediate geology is wrong. Solar Panels? There's a south facing roof - which is ideal - but Conservation rules won't allow it. All a little annoying, but no one can say I didn't go through the options.. I often feel the government are out to stop people receiving grants while pretending they are pushing them. They have chosen the most disruptive and expensive type of heat pump to push and use excuses like poor insulation as reasons not to give grants. Not saying that's the case with your home. But why can't the government offer these ↓↓ at discounted prices. Even if they only supplement existing heating. I contacted my MP about this some while back and just got a glib answer that the government had made its decision.
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Post by walterpaisley on Apr 22, 2024 7:36:00 GMT
The biggest single stumbling block was a lack of double glazing,and that's a conservation issue.
Single glazed sash windows throughout, along with every other house on the road.
I say "every" - but one house on the road (who replaced "modern" windows installed prior to the 1978 conservation order) has recently been granted permission to fit double glazed "faux sash" windows. One can't tell them apart from any other unless looking pretty closely.
I have French windows to the rear, which were also fitted before 1978. South facing, they're in a brutal suntrap every summer. I've replaced them three times - within the rules each time - with "like for like": Wooden construction. The swelling/shrinking is so extreme that they never close easily, and the wind fair whistles through them. Last year, seeing how upvc technology has moved on, I submittedan application to replace them with something more modern.
No go.
I love my house, and I fully support the philosophy of the Conservation Area, but I still get a little selfishly irked when it's ME getting the sticky end of the lollipop.
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Post by Zany on Apr 22, 2024 7:55:23 GMT
The biggest single stumbling block was a lack of double glazing,and that's a conservation issue. Single glazed sash windows throughout, along with every other house on the road. I say "every" - but one house on the road (who replaced "modern" windows installed prior to the 1978 conservation order) has recently been granted permission to fit double glazed "faux sash" windows. One can't tell them apart from any other unless looking pretty closely. I have French windows to the rear, which were also fitted before 1978. South facing, they're in a brutal suntrap every summer. I've replaced them three times - within the rules each time - with "like for like": Wooden construction. The swelling/shrinking is so extreme that they never close easily, and the wind fair whistles through them. Last year, seeing how upvc technology has moved on, I submitted an application to replace them with something more modern. No go. I love my house, and I fully support the philosophy of the Conservation Area, but I still get a little selfishly irked when it's ME getting the sticky end of the lollipop. I was in the building trade for a number of years and came across numerous ridiculous conditions placed on Grade2 listed buildings. A guy who wanted to do up a cottage attached to his home was told he had to find original matching glass to replace all the broken panes, even mock original 'restoration' glass was not acceptable. In the end he gave up and said he'd just let it rot. On heat pumps, There is no reason they cannot heat the draughtiest house, just like any other heating you just need more of them. That said I suspect even those two outside vents I showed you are probably forbidden on your property. The planning office are right up there with the safety gods.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2024 14:06:24 GMT
I am no expert on heat pumps so am not going to be making any argument one way or the other. But I have heard one criticism of them - aside from their expense - which I will relate, in the hope that those of you who are more knowledgeable about them can confirm, refute, or clarify.
Basically I have heard that the colder it is outside the less well they work and that below a certain temperature they barely work at all. Is this true? By all means correct that information if it is false. But if true it offers the prospect of insufficient heat available when the ambient temperature is so cold as to make heating most necessary. Which would tend to suggest a need for other back up sources of energy being necessary during cold snaps.
Who amongst you has one? And how well do they work in all weathers and temperatures?
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Post by Zany on Apr 22, 2024 17:06:27 GMT
I am no expert on heat pumps so am not going to be making any argument one way or the other. But I have heard one criticism of them - aside from their expense - which I will relate, in the hope that those of you who are more knowledgeable about them can confirm, refute, or clarify. Basically I have heard that the colder it is outside the less well they work and that below a certain temperature they barely work at all. Is this true? By all means correct that information if it is false. But if true it offers the prospect of insufficient heat available when the ambient temperature is so cold as to make heating most necessary. Which would tend to suggest a need for other back up sources of energy being necessary during cold snaps. Who amongst you has one? And how well do they work in all weathers and temperatures? Yes its true, my system starts to fail around minus 9 °C. More modern systems work down to minus 15 °C Mine have been in about 5 years and I've had to use our electric fire about 4 times for a few days each time. The issue is that if they cannot achieve the temperature you set (Say 22 °C) they turn off rather than pump slightly colder air around your home. So minus 9 and mine can't raise the temperature to plus 22 and stop.
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Post by walterpaisley on Apr 22, 2024 17:14:17 GMT
And how well do they work in all weathers and temperatures? I know someone in Mollendal (near Bergen, Norway) who has it in her apartment. I've never asked her about it (and I've never visited in the depth of winter..), but it seems to work fine.
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Post by Zany on Apr 22, 2024 17:18:58 GMT
And how well do they work in all weathers and temperatures? I know someone in Mollendal (near Bergen, Norway) who has it in her apartment. I've never asked her about it (and I've never visited in the depth of winter..), but it seems to work fine. The higher pressure they work under the bigger temperature range they can handle.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2024 0:12:14 GMT
I am no expert on heat pumps so am not going to be making any argument one way or the other. But I have heard one criticism of them - aside from their expense - which I will relate, in the hope that those of you who are more knowledgeable about them can confirm, refute, or clarify. Basically I have heard that the colder it is outside the less well they work and that below a certain temperature they barely work at all. Is this true? By all means correct that information if it is false. But if true it offers the prospect of insufficient heat available when the ambient temperature is so cold as to make heating most necessary. Which would tend to suggest a need for other back up sources of energy being necessary during cold snaps. Who amongst you has one? And how well do they work in all weathers and temperatures? Yes its true, my system starts to fail around minus 9 °C. More modern systems work down to minus 15 °C Mine have been in about 5 years and I've had to use our electric fire about 4 times for a few days each time. The issue is that if they cannot achieve the temperature you set (Say 22 °C) they turn off rather than pump slightly colder air around your home. So minus 9 and mine can't raise the temperature to plus 22 and stop. Well in the UK, sometimes overnight temperatures can drop below minus 9 or even minus 15 but this is quite rare, especially so down here in the southwest. It has been known though. So a back up source of heating would need to be available just in case but would be needed very infrequently. I must admit that working at temperatures down to minus 9, and even more so minus 15 is a far better performance than I anticipated. If you had said they stopped working when the temp drops close to zero it would not have surprised me. So I am impressed they can still work at much colder temperatures than that.
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Post by Zany on Apr 24, 2024 16:31:01 GMT
Yes its true, my system starts to fail around minus 9 °C. More modern systems work down to minus 15 °C Mine have been in about 5 years and I've had to use our electric fire about 4 times for a few days each time. The issue is that if they cannot achieve the temperature you set (Say 22 °C) they turn off rather than pump slightly colder air around your home. So minus 9 and mine can't raise the temperature to plus 22 and stop. Well in the UK, sometimes overnight temperatures can drop below minus 9 or even minus 15 but this is quite rare, especially so down here in the southwest. It has been known though. So a back up source of heating would need to be available just in case but would be needed very infrequently. I must admit that working at temperatures down to minus 9, and even more so minus 15 is a far better performance than I anticipated. If you had said they stopped working when the temp drops close to zero it would not have surprised me. So I am impressed they can still work at much colder temperatures than that. Its funny how so much of our thinking on temperature is about freezing point. We tend to think everything changes at zero degrees. Sort of built into our psyche. If you switch from Celsius to Kelvin its much clearer. Minus 20c is 253k plus 20c is 293k A machine that can work between 253k and 293k does not sound remarkable at all.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2024 18:27:03 GMT
Well in the UK, sometimes overnight temperatures can drop below minus 9 or even minus 15 but this is quite rare, especially so down here in the southwest. It has been known though. So a back up source of heating would need to be available just in case but would be needed very infrequently. I must admit that working at temperatures down to minus 9, and even more so minus 15 is a far better performance than I anticipated. If you had said they stopped working when the temp drops close to zero it would not have surprised me. So I am impressed they can still work at much colder temperatures than that. Its funny how so much of our thinking on temperature is about freezing point. We tend to think everything changes at zero degrees. Sort of built into our psyche. If you switch from Celsius to Kelvin its much clearer. Minus 20c is 253k plus 20c is 293k A machine that can work between 253k and 293k does not sound remarkable at all. Good point. The only real significance 0 Celsius has is that it is the freezing point of water. Which is only really of significance to any systems reliant upon the flow of liquid water.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Apr 24, 2024 21:33:09 GMT
It's very significant to us drivers
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Post by Zany on Apr 25, 2024 6:40:53 GMT
It's very significant to us drivers And many aspects of life.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Apr 25, 2024 10:37:31 GMT
Yes gardeners and farmers as other examples of where 0oC is very significant
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