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Post by Zany on Apr 12, 2024 16:09:51 GMT
Are they trying to force Americas hand?
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Post by RedRum on Apr 13, 2024 7:25:19 GMT
It would appear they need more help, even to the point of troops on the ground.
They have screwed up in Gaza and people are now beginning to see them for what they are and not as the 'victims' they like to be thought of as.
They need time to 'clean up' some of the war crimes they have committed before 'independent' observers make their way into Gaza and see the truth about what has happened and spreading the war is one way to achieve this.
Clarification.
When I say 'they' I mean the Israeli government and not the Jewish people, in general they have nothing to do with the actions of their government.
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Post by Zany on Apr 13, 2024 7:41:35 GMT
It would appear they need more help, even to the point of troops on the ground. They have screwed up in Gaza and people are now beginning to see them for what they are and not as the 'victims' they like to be thought of as. They need time to 'clean up' some of the war crimes they have committed before 'independent' observers make their way into Gaza and see the truth about what has happened and spreading the war is one way to achieve this. Clarification. When I say 'they' I mean the Israeli government and not the Jewish people, in general they have nothing to do with the actions of their government. Firstly. I don't think you need to worry on this forum that people will try to derail the thread by calling you anti-Semitic when its clear who you are referring to. On the rest, Yes that's where I am, drag the Americans in and hope the atrocities get lost on the conflagration that follows. This hinges on America's reaction, more than on Iran's. |
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Post by RedRum on Apr 13, 2024 8:08:25 GMT
Israel has royally messed this up, given the amount of video footage that can be verified by date and location stamps, it is hard to see how the truth will not come out.
There is a report of a Palestinian man, with picture, being stripped and the star of David etched into his back by knife and the UK is still supporting this as 'self defence'.
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Post by Zany on Apr 13, 2024 8:21:00 GMT
Israel has royally messed this up, given the amount of video footage that can be verified by date and location stamps, it is hard to see how the truth will not come out. There is a report of a Palestinian man, with picture, being stripped and the star of David etched into his back by knife and the UK is still supporting this as 'self defence'. Well its hard to imagine how Israel has maintained its position as a member of the West up till now. Their treatment of Palestinians in the West bank would not be acceptable by any other Western ally. The conclusion must be that there's still a lot of Jewish money in the states. There are also a great many Jews in senior positions in the United States Government. The question is: How do they view Israel's behaviour. How far are they prepared to put kinsman-ship before what's right. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2024 13:33:55 GMT
Are they trying to force Americas hand? It was clearly motivated by a desire to distract attention from the mass slaughter they have been inflicting on the people of Gaza. They hoped to provoke Iranian retaliation of some kind so that Israel could again play the role of victim and get the West, especially the USA, back onside. Iran's attempt to retaliate is exactly what was hoped for and the USA, with Congress in Israel's pocket, is doing exactly what was hoped for too. Israel has long been an oppressor state playing the victim card. The whole thing is transparently obvious to anyone who does not want to be blind to it. And yet we who oppose oppression and mass punishment are accused of antisemitism if we say the Israeli government is behaving like Nazis. Even if the Israeli government actually is behaving like Nazis. And in that respect they have learned nothing from history. Tyrannising, oppressing, and slaughtering people by the tens of thousands was what the Nazis did to try to suppress resistance but it merely generated more of it. All those people who have lost children or parents are going to have anger in their hearts and a lust for revenge, which only means that people like Hamas will grow stronger in the long run. Israel today is creating the terrorists of tomorrow yet it's government seems too stupid to see it. The rage it is provoking ultimately makes future attacks like that of 7th October more likely, not less. |
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Post by dappy on Apr 14, 2024 13:51:21 GMT
I think you do have to put yourself in Israel and particularly Netanyahu’s position to try to understand this. Jewish people have been persecuted throughout centuries culminating in the appalling events 80 years ago. They fear for their and their children’s safety. Those feelings for those who live in Israel have been exacerbated by being surrounded by people who (often for good reason) want to do them harm. The events of October 7th deeply affected Jewish people’s sense of security. When people perceive their and their families personal safety as being threatened, they reach for extremes and their humanity towards others tends to be compromised by them prioritising their own immediate danger.
None of this justifies their appalling behaviour in Gaza - either on humanitarian or strategic grounds - but it does perhaps explain it.
The West needs outstanding leadership to put the cork back in the bottle and find an acceptable peace for all sides. Honestly not sure where I see such a leader.
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 14:28:25 GMT
I think you do have to put yourself in Israel and particularly Netanyahu’s position to try to understand this. Jewish people have been persecuted throughout centuries culminating in the appalling events 80 years ago. They fear for their and their children’s safety. Those feelings for those who live in Israel have been exacerbated by being surrounded by people who (often for good reason) want to do them harm. The events of October 7th deeply affected Jewish people’s sense of security. When people perceive their and their families personal safety as being threatened, they reach for extremes and their humanity towards others tends to be compromised by them prioritising their own immediate danger. None of this justifies their appalling behaviour in Gaza - either on humanitarian or strategic grounds - but it does perhaps explain it. The West needs outstanding leadership to put the cork back in the bottle and find an acceptable peace for all sides. Honestly not sure where I see such a leader. Some people believe the Hamas attack was allowed to happen. It does indeed seem strange that the military took so long to reach ground zero in a country so geared up to war. That the right wing in Israel want Palestinians gone and don't care how is fairly obvious if you look back to before the Hamas attack and at the West bank where Palestinians have been systematically driven from their homes with violence for decades, Thinking this war started on the 7th of October is a big mistake. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2024 23:30:23 GMT
I think you do have to put yourself in Israel and particularly Netanyahu’s position to try to understand this. Jewish people have been persecuted throughout centuries culminating in the appalling events 80 years ago. They fear for their and their children’s safety. Those feelings for those who live in Israel have been exacerbated by being surrounded by people who (often for good reason) want to do them harm. The events of October 7th deeply affected Jewish people’s sense of security. When people perceive their and their families personal safety as being threatened, they reach for extremes and their humanity towards others tends to be compromised by them prioritising their own immediate danger. None of this justifies their appalling behaviour in Gaza - either on humanitarian or strategic grounds - but it does perhaps explain it. The West needs outstanding leadership to put the cork back in the bottle and find an acceptable peace for all sides. Honestly not sure where I see such a leader. The Israelis had such a leader at one point. Their own extremists assassinated him. The extreme right has a stranglehold on Israeli politics today. Many of them derive from what used to be Likud, a party that included terrorists who murdered British soldiers, blew up the King David Hotel in which fellow Jews died amongst many others, and perpetrated the Deir Yassin massacre which did much to precipitate mass flight by the Arabs. Terror has been part of the Israeli extreme right playbook since before Israel even came into existence. British soldiers and their families were amongst the victims. We should consider things like this when we decide whom to send arms to. |
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Post by totheleft on Apr 15, 2024 15:44:01 GMT
I feel that the attack on the Embassy in Damascus was a attack on Iranian Sovereignty. It was nothing but a direct terrorism attack.
Iran has reacted and Israel says it will respond besides that America has asked for resist escalating the situation.
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Post by RedRum on Apr 17, 2024 16:46:44 GMT
In amongst all this, Israel have grabbed back the title of 'victims', supported by the west.
It has also come to light that Israel has blocked a UN investigation into October the 7th citing an anti-Semitic bias in the UN.
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Post by Zany on Apr 17, 2024 18:19:53 GMT
In amongst all this, Israel have grabbed back the title of 'victims', supported by the west. It has also come to light that Israel has blocked a UN investigation into October the 7th citing an anti-Semitic bias in the UN. How much longer will we close our eyes to Israel's behaviour. Thought I notice we can atleast now criticise Israel without being labelled anti-Semite. So maybe the tide is changing. |
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Post by RedRum on Apr 19, 2024 10:38:54 GMT
Did anyone watch Kay Burley interview David Cameron?
Apparently there is a degree of difference between Israel attacking Iran and Iran attacking Israel.
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Post by RedRum on Apr 19, 2024 10:41:26 GMT
I have not seen this on the UK news but there are reports of a drone strike on a school playground in Gaza killing 11 children.
Given Israel claims 70% of Palestinians are Hamas 7 of the children must have been terrorists.
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Post by sheepy on Apr 21, 2024 6:06:54 GMT
I have not seen this on the UK news but there are reports of a drone strike on a school playground in Gaza killing 11 children. Given Israel claims 70% of Palestinians are Hamas 7 of the children must have been terrorists. I have even read from Israeli supporters on the internet this is so. So, it makes it fine to kill them. |
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