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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 23:49:32 GMT
What on earth do you mean when you say you 'left it open to see if anyone's opinion changed?'. You just stood by and hoped it would go away. At least, that's the impression you gave. Whose opinion were you waiting to change? Bentley's? Are you really saying you believed that there was a chance that Bentley would just fess up? Really? You can't have believed that. As I said, you stood idly by, and any claim that you were waiting for anyone's 'opinion to change' is mere nonsense. I mean, we discussed it for a while. You are of the opinion that we should have closed it quickly and ignored you entirely? You discussed it for a week? That's how long it took you to act. And even then it was grudging, with a less severe sanction than had been previously handed down for less serious offenses. Then, when Buccaneer clearly broke the rules, it was the same all over again. Except this time, spurious reasoning was used to send the message that the rules only apply when it suits certain members of the mod team. If you have any doubts about that, let me remind you of what I stated above. A member made a much stronger objection to a mod team decision than I made. When his thread was removed, he posted it again. When it was removed again, he posted it again. There was no sanction. Yet, I received a two-week suspension for my restrained objection to the absurd decision reached in respect of Buccaneer.
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Post by Orac on Apr 15, 2024 0:18:47 GMT
I mean, we discussed it for a while. You are of the opinion that we should have closed it quickly and ignored you entirely? You discussed it for a week? That's how long it took you to act. And even then it was grudging, with a less severe sanction than had been previously handed down for less serious offenses. Then, when Buccaneer clearly broke the rules, it was the same all over again. Except this time, spurious reasoning was used to send the message that the rules only apply when it suits certain members of the mod team. We discuss things for as long as we want.. Is that okay by you or should we report to you every five minutes and give you an eta and an explanation? Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules. My view is that Red Rum fell foul of his usage of a particular term that Tin is sensitive to ( my best guess).
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Post by RedRum on Apr 15, 2024 7:25:53 GMT
You discussed it for a week? That's how long it took you to act. And even then it was grudging, with a less severe sanction than had been previously handed down for less serious offenses. Then, when Buccaneer clearly broke the rules, it was the same all over again. Except this time, spurious reasoning was used to send the message that the rules only apply when it suits certain members of the mod team. We discuss things for as long as we want.. Is that okay by you or should we report to you every five minutes and give you an eta and an explanation? Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules. My view is that Red Rum fell foul of his usage of a particular term that Tin is sensitive to ( my best guess). That may be true but I am particularly sensitive to being called an anti-Semite and a Hamas supporter, especially by a moderator who should be held to a standard that is higher than members. If a member calls me either of those things it is somewhat par for the course and a sign that they have no better argument but whether people like it it not a moderator is 'bound' by a code of 'decency' that exceeds his/her member status, therefore if a moderator calls one an anti-Semite or a Hamas supporter it should be a serious, reasoned accusation not an attempt at a slur.
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Post by Orac on Apr 15, 2024 8:10:12 GMT
We discuss things for as long as we want.. Is that okay by you or should we report to you every five minutes and give you an eta and an explanation? Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules. My view is that Red Rum fell foul of his usage of a particular term that Tin is sensitive to ( my best guess). That may be true but I am particularly sensitive to being called an anti-Semite and a Hamas supporter, especially by a moderator who should be held to a standard that is higher than members. If a member calls me either of those things it is somewhat par for the course and a sign that they have no better argument but whether people like it it not a moderator is 'bound' by a code of 'decency' that exceeds his/her member status, therefore if a moderator calls one an anti-Semite or a Hamas supporter it should be a serious, reasoned accusation not an attempt at a slur. Here we get into the politics though. Tin might argue that someone who is attempting to construct a situation in which the Israeli population is defenseless and can be culled at their enemy's leisure, is functionally 'anti-Semitic'. I agree though, he is hypocritically breaking his own code by doing this.Tin doesn't make any allowance for the veracity of the accusation in the rule.
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Post by Saintly on Apr 15, 2024 8:39:05 GMT
You discussed it for a week? That's how long it took you to act. And even then it was grudging, with a less severe sanction than had been previously handed down for less serious offenses. Then, when Buccaneer clearly broke the rules, it was the same all over again. Except this time, spurious reasoning was used to send the message that the rules only apply when it suits certain members of the mod team. We discuss things for as long as we want.. Is that okay by you or should we report to you every five minutes and give you an eta and an explanation? Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules. My view is that Red Rum fell foul of his usage of a particular term that Tin is sensitive to ( my best guess). When it suits your agenda, you dig your heels in and refuse to do anything at all of your own volition. You said yourself that Bentley's offending remark was removed immediately. It was a clear cut case. So, why did it take so long? Ordinarily, there would have been no urgency. But the thread still existed while you were making up your mind. Meanwhile, Bentley was doubling down, and repeating his nonsense. So, the reasonable thing to do would have been to act promptly. Why the need for a week's deliberation in a clear cut case? Why the reluctance to act? The reasonable conclusion is that it's breach of the rule that counts, but who broke the rule and who the offended member is. Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules? Are you serious? There couldn't have been a more blatant breach of the rules. You have some eccentric viewpoints, Orac. But that one really takes the biscuit.
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Post by Saintly on Apr 15, 2024 8:40:37 GMT
We discuss things for as long as we want.. Is that okay by you or should we report to you every five minutes and give you an eta and an explanation? Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules. My view is that Red Rum fell foul of his usage of a particular term that Tin is sensitive to ( my best guess). When it suits your agenda, you dig your heels in and refuse to do anything at all of your own volition. You said yourself that Bentley's offending remark was removed immediately. It was a clear cut case. So, why did it take so long for you to act? Ordinarily, there would have been no urgency. But the thread still existed while you were making up your mind. Meanwhile, Bentley was doubling down, and repeating his nonsense. So, the reasonable thing to do would have been to act promptly. Why the need for a week's deliberation in a clear cut case? Why the reluctance to act? The reasonable conclusion is that it's not the breach of a rule that counts, but who broke the rule and who the offended member is. Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules? Are you serious? There couldn't have been a more blatant breach of the rules. You have some eccentric viewpoints, Orac. But that one really takes the biscuit.
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Post by delphicoracle on Apr 15, 2024 16:04:24 GMT
This is part and parcel of the context and equivalence mud-pit you enter by having explicit rules like this. The reason the Goebbels comment was not deemed a Nazi accusation was context related - ie they were talking about propaganda, It would be far better if rules like were not public or, to put it another way, the mods just used their discretion. Once a rule is public it becomes a game I think there is much sense in having a rule where mods mod based on their common sense and discretion. It is only a politics forum after all. If you don’t like the way a forum is moderated, leave. And why there should be AT MOST only three mods. I have to say this thread has certainly drawn back the curtain on a really funny comedy . Anyone know a forum moderated by adults?
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Post by Orac on Apr 15, 2024 17:45:15 GMT
We discuss things for as long as we want.. Is that okay by you or should we report to you every five minutes and give you an eta and an explanation? Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules. My view is that Red Rum fell foul of his usage of a particular term that Tin is sensitive to ( my best guess). When it suits your agenda, you dig your heels in and refuse to do anything at all of your own volition. You said yourself that Bentley's offending remark was removed immediately. It was a clear cut case. So, why did it take so long? Ordinarily, there would have been no urgency. But the thread still existed while you were making up your mind. Meanwhile, Bentley was doubling down, and repeating his nonsense. So, the reasonable thing to do would have been to act promptly. Why the need for a week's deliberation in a clear cut case? Why the reluctance to act? The reasonable conclusion is that it's breach of the rule that counts, but who broke the rule and who the offended member is. Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules? Are you serious? There couldn't have been a more blatant breach of the rules. You have some eccentric viewpoints, Orac. But that one really takes the biscuit. At every turn you seem to misinterpret me disagreeing with you as some kind of hesitancy, indecisiveness or a similar failure. We don't have similar goals and so it is not surprising we disagree. You seem to be almost flabbergasted that someone disagrees with you.
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Post by Saint on Apr 15, 2024 19:31:02 GMT
When it suits your agenda, you dig your heels in and refuse to do anything at all of your own volition. You said yourself that Bentley's offending remark was removed immediately. It was a clear cut case. So, why did it take so long? Ordinarily, there would have been no urgency. But the thread still existed while you were making up your mind. Meanwhile, Bentley was doubling down, and repeating his nonsense. So, the reasonable thing to do would have been to act promptly. Why the need for a week's deliberation in a clear cut case? Why the reluctance to act? The reasonable conclusion is that it's breach of the rule that counts, but who broke the rule and who the offended member is. Buccaneer didn't clearly break the rules? Are you serious? There couldn't have been a more blatant breach of the rules. You have some eccentric viewpoints, Orac. But that one really takes the biscuit. At every turn you seem to misinterpret me disagreeing with you as some kind of hesitancy, indecisiveness or a similar failure. We don't have similar goals and so it is not surprising we disagree. You seem to be almost flabbergasted that someone disagrees with you. In this particular instance, anyone would have been flabbergasted by the mod team's conclusion. Every time the transgender issue was raised, the usual suspects would come along and impute paedophile motives to anyone who disagreed with their view of the matter. Every single time. And each time, getting the mod team to do anything about it was like trying to pull teeth. In Bentley's case, it took over a week. Meanwhile, the thread remained an open sore. Then another thread on the transgender topic opens, and the usual suspects pile on again. I say that the issue is one best left to medical professionals, and Buccaneer calls me Goebbels. I report it as a breach of the Nazi rule. The mod team considers it, and the decision comes back that Buccaneer hadn't called me a Nazi; rather, he had called me a propagandist who just happened to be Nazi. No foul. The majority of the active mod team (you, Pacifico, and Tinculin) are very much on the Right of the transgender issue, all of you being very much against. The absurd conclusion that I hadn't been called a Nazi doesn't make any sense until that fact is taken into consideration. Then I open a thread in the part of the forum specifically set aside to discuss the moderation of the forum. I raise the issue in a thread. As always, the usual suspects come along and take digs. I ignore them. I make my point in restrained and moderate language. Tinculin turns up and hands down a two week suspension for questioning the decision. You said I was flabbergasted. Yes, I am, quite frankly. I'm flabbergasted that your first instinct is to defend that kind of bullshit.
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Post by Orac on Apr 15, 2024 19:58:04 GMT
At every turn you seem to misinterpret me disagreeing with you as some kind of hesitancy, indecisiveness or a similar failure. We don't have similar goals and so it is not surprising we disagree. You seem to be almost flabbergasted that someone disagrees with you. In this particular instance, anyone would have been flabbergasted by the mod team's conclusion. I disagree.. The initial conclusion was that it was a genuine issue and you had a real compliant, but that Bentley required a warning that what he was doing was a breach. I think this is reasonable. One of my issues with Tin's rules is that they allow a lot of interpretation and have very steep sentencing guidelines. The objective is not to knock people off the board with sudden death knockouts, but to get the rules to be observed. I have a question for you - If, in your mind, Bentley should have got some substantial suspension, what is the difference between his and Red Rum's case that makes this not the case for Red Rum?
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Post by Saint on Apr 15, 2024 20:25:32 GMT
In this particular instance, anyone would have been flabbergasted by the mod team's conclusion. I disagree.. The initial conclusion was that it was a genuine issue and you had a real compliant, but that Bentley required a warning that what he was doing was a breach. I think this is reasonable. One of my issues with Tin's rules is that they allow a lot of interpretation and have very steep sentencing guidelines. The objective is not to knock people off the board with sudden death knockouts, but to get the rules to be observed. I have a question for you - If, in your mind, Bentley should have got some substantial suspension, what is the difference between his and Red Rum's case that makes this not the case for Red Rum? Red Rum has already explained. I was a participant in the same thread. My opening post was very clearly condemnatory of Hamas. My focus in later posts, however, was the disproportionate response, the killing of innocents among the Palestinian population. Tinculin immediately accused me of being a terrorist supporter. A member of the mod team intervened, asking Tinculin to point to where I had shown any support for Hamas. Tinculin couldn't. Nevertheless, I immediately left the thread, knowing from Tinculin's dealings with Sword that the quickest way to get banned from the forum is to disagree with Tinculin on an issue he has strong feelings about.
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Post by dappy on Apr 16, 2024 9:20:04 GMT
This feels an odd conversation, discussing a moderating decision on another forum. You are both obviously free to discuss it but it seems an odd thing to do. We are trying out a new forum , most of us it would appear hoping that this forum will facilitate more debate and less insults. The mod of this forum seemingly wishes to moderate by”common sense”. That seems a valid approach. As ever if you don’t like the mods interpretation of common sense, walk away. I am pretty sure life will go on.
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Post by Saint on Apr 16, 2024 11:34:34 GMT
This feels an odd conversation, discussing a moderating decision on another forum. You are both obviously free to discuss it but it seems an odd thing to do. We are trying out a new forum , most of us it would appear hoping that this forum will facilitate more debate and less insults. The mod of this forum seemingly wishes to moderate by”common sense”. That seems a valid approach. As ever if you don’t like the mods interpretation of common sense, walk away. I am pretty sure life will go on. Likewise, if a thread is of no interest to you, simply walk away from it, Dappy.
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Post by RedRum on Apr 16, 2024 16:38:30 GMT
I am currently in 'conversation' with Tinculin about the treatment I received re a two week ban.
It is not going well.
He totally fails to differentiate between his duties as a mod, no matter how senior, and his position as a posting member.
I have reminded him that he called me an anti-Semite which, coming from a mod, is a very serious charge and no action was taken and no apology proffered.
The double standards are, quite frankly, startling.
He has warned me that 'if I carry on with the same behaviour I will be banned for a month and subsequently a life ban will be imposed' but has not said what that behaviour means.
Can we not call a liar a liar? ...
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Post by Zany on Apr 16, 2024 17:04:44 GMT
I am currently in 'conversation' with Tinculin about the treatment I received re a two week ban. It is not going well. He totally fails to differentiate between his duties as a mod, no matter how senior, and his position as a posting member. I have reminded him that he called me an anti-Semite which, coming from a mod, is a very serious charge and no action was taken and no apology proffered. The double standards are, quite frankly, startling. He has warned me that 'if I carry on with the same behaviour I will be banned for a month and subsequently a life ban will be imposed' but has not said what that behaviour means. Can we not call a liar a liar? ... Absolute power.....
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