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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 15:06:24 GMT
Tinculin did seem to be particularly energised by the events in the ME. There are real people behind the anonymous online identities. Perhaps he was personally involved in some way - maybe he is Jewish himself - maybe he even has family there. I think is quite likely - ie more likely than not. He probably has Ukrainian roots, too. After all, that was the context of Sword's ban. The truth is, it's just dangerous to disagree with Tinculin.
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 15:31:36 GMT
Of course if Bentley had been stopped from doing it in the first place.... IIRC the message/s were removed pretty quickly. That's not true. The initial message was removed pretty quickly. But he then doubled down. His subsequent remarks weren't removed. You mentioned my complaining about it for two weeks. Why did it take you two weeks to come to a decision to sanction Bentley? If the message was taken down immediately, I would have thought that the offense was pretty clear cut. So why the delay? Why was it necessary to jump through a million hoops to get you to act? Can you explain that? Why wasn't Buccaneer penalised for calling someone a Nazi? Why did teeth have to be pulled before you would act against someone for calling a member a paedophile? Why was a rule that protects a Nazi apologist introduced? You can see why some people might conclude that the Right are favoured by your 'discretion', can't you?
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 16:01:25 GMT
If he's Jewish himself, it's strange that he judged calling somebody Goebbels as not being equivalent to calling them a Nazi. It's also peculiar that he would introduce a Nazi-name-calling rule that protects the forum's resident white supremacist and Nazi apologist. This is part and parcel of the context and equivalence mud-pit you enter by having explicit rules like this. The reason the Goebbels comment was not deemed a Nazi accusation was context related - ie they were talking about propaganda, It would be far better if rules like were not public or, to put it another way, the mods just used their discretion. Once a rule is public it becomes a game I agree. For better or worse the Mods have to be trusted, or if not time to move on.
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 16:05:56 GMT
This is part and parcel of the context and equivalence mud-pit you enter by having explicit rules like this. The reason the Goebbels comment was not deemed a Nazi accusation was context related - ie they were talking about propaganda, It would be far better if rules like were not public or, to put it another way, the mods just used their discretion. Once a rule is public it becomes a game I agree. For better or worse the Mods have to be trusted, or if not time to move on. Why not seek to get the mods to act fairly? Take Dubdrifter, for example. Just one of his posts might take an hour to compile. He felt hard done by recently. Why should he move on? Why shouldn't he agitate for a fair result? He has contributed hundreds of hours of work and made friends on a forum he has been on for literally years. Of course, it's only an internet forum. Moderation in all things. I wouldn't expect him to devote a considerable amount of time to agitating for a fair outcome, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to work for one before making the decision to move on if that doesn't work out.
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 16:09:16 GMT
IIRC the message/s were removed pretty quickly. That's not true. The initial message was removed pretty quickly. But he then doubled down. His subsequent remarks weren't removed. You mentioned my complaining about it for two weeks. Why did it take you two weeks to come to a decision to sanction Bentley? If the message was taken down immediately, I would have thought that the offense was pretty clear cut. So why the delay? Why was it necessary to jump through a million hoops to get you to act? Can you explain that? Why wasn't Buccaneer penalised for calling someone a Nazi? Why did teeth have to be pulled before you would act against someone for calling a member a paedophile? Why was a rule that protects a Nazi apologist introduced? You can see why some people might conclude that the Right are favoured by your 'discretion', can't you? I think Bentley etc were seen by Orac as harmless provocateurs baiting the stupid left wingers and their crazy beliefs, I've even seen Orac join in. But you have to remember, these mods are just forum members (here to air their own views) who have kindly volunteered to act as overwatch. They make mistakes, get angry, disagree with your views and still try to be equal. Cause they get it wrong sometimes but they are far better than no one or the likes of Bentley.
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 16:13:49 GMT
I agree. For better or worse the Mods have to be trusted, or if not time to move on. Why not seek to get the mods to act fairly? Take Dubdrifter, for example. Just one of his posts might take an hour to compile. He felt hard done by recently. Why should he move on? Why shouldn't he agitate for a fair result? He has contributed hundreds of hours of work and made friends on a forum he has been on for literally years. Of course, it's only an internet forum. Moderation in all things. I wouldn't expect him to devote a considerable amount of time to agitating for a fair outcome, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to work for one before making the decision to move on if that doesn't work out. The likes of those who came from one forum that was closed down to another forum that was closed to another forum that is dying of a million cuts and still they can't see the wood for the trees.
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 16:15:25 GMT
Why not seek to get the mods to act fairly? Take Dubdrifter, for example. Just one of his posts might take an hour to compile. He felt hard done by recently. Why should he move on? Why shouldn't he agitate for a fair result? He has contributed hundreds of hours of work and made friends on a forum he has been on for literally years. Of course, it's only an internet forum. Moderation in all things. I wouldn't expect him to devote a considerable amount of time to agitating for a fair outcome, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to work for one before making the decision to move on if that doesn't work out. The likes of those who came from one forum that was closed down to another forum that was closed to another forum that is dying of a million cuts and still they can't see the wood for the trees. What?
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 18:35:41 GMT
The likes of those who came from one forum that was closed down to another forum that was closed to another forum that is dying of a million cuts and still they can't see the wood for the trees. What? A big chunk joined the POFO forum from another forum that got shutdown due to fears of fines for racism. Then POFO shuts down, then UKpoliticsdebate starts getting pissed. I draw my conclusions.
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 19:00:21 GMT
A big chunk joined the POFO forum from another forum that got shutdown due to fears of fines for racism. Then POFO shuts down, then UKpoliticsdebate starts getting pissed. I draw my conclusions. I still don't follow.
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 19:08:05 GMT
A big chunk joined the POFO forum from another forum that got shutdown due to fears of fines for racism. Then POFO shuts down, then UKpoliticsdebate starts getting pissed. I draw my conclusions. I still don't follow. Never mind. Lets discuss politics and leave this crap to history. Who you going to vote for in November?
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Post by Orac on Apr 14, 2024 20:26:01 GMT
IIRC the message/s were removed pretty quickly. You mentioned my complaining about it for two weeks. Why did it take you two weeks to come to a decision to sanction Bentley? It didn't. The initial decision was much quicker and it was to warn Bentley and remove the messages. That should imho have been the end of it. However, about week later you did the same things as Bentley and so the whole thing got re-opened and Bentley agreed to a suspension.
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 21:53:40 GMT
You mentioned my complaining about it for two weeks. Why did it take you two weeks to come to a decision to sanction Bentley? It didn't. The initial decision was much quicker and it was to warn Bentley and remove the messages. That should imho have been the end of it. However, about week later you did the same things as Bentley and so the whole thing got re-opened and Bentley agreed to a suspension. There's nothing to be gained from going over all this again. It certainly isn't going help this forum. But what the hell! If you're going to spout bullshit, I'm going to defend myself., It took at least a week for you to do anything. You had to be dragged kicking and screaming into acting against Bentley. The same with Buccaneer. And when Buccaneer broke the Nazi-name-calling rule you gave him a free pass on the dubious grounds that my saying that transgender matters should be left to medical professionals qualifies as propaganda, so that the rule wasn't broken. You couldn't make that shit up, Orac! And when did I do the same thing as Bentley? I called nobody a paedophile.
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Post by Orac on Apr 14, 2024 23:10:17 GMT
It didn't. The initial decision was much quicker and it was to warn Bentley and remove the messages. That should imho have been the end of it. However, about week later you did the same things as Bentley and so the whole thing got re-opened and Bentley agreed to a suspension. There's nothing to be gained from going over all this again. It certainly isn't going help this forum. But what the hell! If you're going to spout bullshit, I'm going to defend myself., It took at least a week for you to do anything. You had to be dragged kicking and screaming into acting against Bentley. The same with Buccaneer. And when Buccaneer broke the Nazi-name-calling rule you gave him a free pass on the dubious grounds that my saying that transgender matters should be left to medical professionals qualifies as propaganda, so that the rule wasn't broken. You couldn't make that shit up, Orac! And when did I do the same thing as Bentley? I called nobody a paedophile. I'm counting the end being the point the mods agreed to a course of action regarding Bentley. The forum allowed you to express your opinion and your opinion was that there needed to be much, much harsher punishments. We left the matter open for while to see if anyone's opinion changed and then we closed Bentley's case. and he was given a warning. We then re-opened Bentley's case when Dan reported you for 'calling him a nazi'. You didn't actually call Dan a Nazi, you insinuated it in similar style to the way Bentley insinuated you were paedophiile (it was so strikingly similar I assumed you placed to violation deliberately to make a point).. My initial position on both cases was that all that was needed was PM ( a rule reminder). If it were up to me you wouldn't have have got a suspension and neither would have Bentley. I think i was away from my desk when the Buccaneer decision was made - i am providing the rationale second hand.
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 23:28:41 GMT
There's nothing to be gained from going over all this again. It certainly isn't going help this forum. But what the hell! If you're going to spout bullshit, I'm going to defend myself., It took at least a week for you to do anything. You had to be dragged kicking and screaming into acting against Bentley. The same with Buccaneer. And when Buccaneer broke the Nazi-name-calling rule you gave him a free pass on the dubious grounds that my saying that transgender matters should be left to medical professionals qualifies as propaganda, so that the rule wasn't broken. You couldn't make that shit up, Orac! And when did I do the same thing as Bentley? I called nobody a paedophile. I'm counting the end being the point the mods agreed to course of action regarding Bentley. The forum allowed you to express your opinion and your opinion was that there needed to be much, much harsher punishments. We left the matter open for while to see if anyone's opinion changed and then we closed Bentley's case. and he was given a warning. We then re-opened Bentley's case when Dan reported you for 'calling him a nazi'. You didn't actually call Dan a Nazi, you insinuated it in similar style to the way Bentley insinuated you were paedophiile (it was so strikingly similar I assumed you placed to violation deliberately to make a point lol).. My initial position on both cases was that all that was needed was PM ( a rule reminder). If it were up to me you wouldn't have have got a suspension and neither would have Bentley. I think i was away from my desk when the Buccaneer decision was made - i am providing the rationale second hand. I pointed out that two members had received suspensions for much less serious offenses than calling someone a paedophile. At no point did I call for Bentley to be banned. In fact, I made that point plain on the open forum. What on earth do you mean when you say you 'left it open to see if anyone's opinion changed?'. You just stood by and hoped it would go away. At least, that's the impression you gave. Whose opinion were you waiting to change? Bentley's? Are you really saying you believed that there was a chance that Bentley would just fess up? Really? You can't have believed that. As I said, you stood idly by, and any claim that you were waiting for anyone's 'opinion to change' is mere nonsense. How did I suggest that Danny was a Nazi? Did I call him an anti-Semite? I believe he is a Nazi, but if I called him an anti-Semite that is doing no more than Tinculin has done. As to the Buccaneer decision, there was no excuse for it. The rule says that you can't call someone a Nazi or imply they're a Nazi. The rationale for Buccaneer's decision was simply preposterous. I said that transgender matters were best left to medical professionals, and it was decided by the powers-that-be that that gave Buccaneer the right to call me a Nazi propagandist, despite the Nazi rule. I think the Nazi rule is ridiculous, but if it's going to be applied, at least apply it fairly. The decision to give Buccaneer a free pass was just a way of saying we can do what we want and there's nothing you can do about it. How do I know that? I know that because when I politely pointed out my objection to the rule in the area of the forum allotted for such purposes, I was given a two-week suspension. Meanwhile, someone who made strong objections to a decision several times, going on to repeat those objections by starting a new thread when his original thread was deleted, received no sanction whatsoever.
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Post by Orac on Apr 14, 2024 23:47:19 GMT
I'm counting the end being the point the mods agreed to course of action regarding Bentley. The forum allowed you to express your opinion and your opinion was that there needed to be much, much harsher punishments. We left the matter open for while to see if anyone's opinion changed and then we closed Bentley's case. and he was given a warning. We then re-opened Bentley's case when Dan reported you for 'calling him a nazi'. You didn't actually call Dan a Nazi, you insinuated it in similar style to the way Bentley insinuated you were paedophiile (it was so strikingly similar I assumed you placed to violation deliberately to make a point lol).. My initial position on both cases was that all that was needed was PM ( a rule reminder). If it were up to me you wouldn't have have got a suspension and neither would have Bentley. I think i was away from my desk when the Buccaneer decision was made - i am providing the rationale second hand. What on earth do you mean when you say you 'left it open to see if anyone's opinion changed?'. You just stood by and hoped it would go away. At least, that's the impression you gave. Whose opinion were you waiting to change? Bentley's? Are you really saying you believed that there was a chance that Bentley would just fess up? Really? You can't have believed that. As I said, you stood idly by, and any claim that you were waiting for anyone's 'opinion to change' is mere nonsense. I mean, we discussed it for a while. You are of the opinion that we should have closed it quickly and ignored you entirely?
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