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Post by cartertonian on Apr 14, 2024 8:39:26 GMT
I agree, Orac. You will recall that I prefer less rules, not more - in online discussion and in real-world politics. The balancing act is in acknowledging that some will exploit rules to target others, as you say, whilst at the same time others will exploit the lack of rules to target others - in online discussion and in real-world politics.  |
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 8:40:20 GMT
Orac will recall that I have commented many times as a mod, that the 'problem' lies with how many members read and contribute, solely to satisfy their appetite for the aforementioned partisan mud-slinging...from both sides in some cases. My mantra as a mod was always that these places are 'discussion' forums, not online analogues for a bar-room brawl. But unfortunately, there's a sizeable number who come here for the entertainment of bar-room brawling and lack either the emotional maturity, the interest, the knowledge or all three, to engage in anything resembling 'discussion'. Barroom fights have proper context if we are playing-fighting 'world wrestling' style. This is very much the position Red Rackham takes - ie we fight , but we are mates really and nobody wants anyone to be actually hurt. Everyone on the board should have this position imho. We all have a common interest The trouble with huge piles of supposedly consistent rules is they paradoxically sow mistrust. Board members stop play-fighting and the game becomes 'serious ' ie exploiting the rules to remove each other from the discussion. Every rule provides a new avenue for this gambit. I have been very much against allowing this pattern to grow because, I suspect, many of our posters use the forum as a significant social venue. Everyone loves Red Rackham, but no one takes debate with him seriously. Why do you find it so difficult to identify with what we are talking of here. Not banter or Joshing. Not even insults and put downs. But the lack of anything else. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 8:40:30 GMT
Yes. People come for all reasons, in different moods, and even in different states of sobriety (check out late Saturday night contributions). It's more of a social club than a debating forum. Obviously, we need opposing viewpoints to have debate of any kind or any quality. Where are we going to find those, if not from the membership of Fox's old site? Have you considered the idea that if you bring the old forum here, then the same thing will happen here as happened there? That those who don't want a brawl will all leave again and leave the site vacuous. Can I ask, if you want the old site here why don't you just carry on there? As for good debate, I am quite enjoying the finesse of debate on this site and it still has opposing views. I've gone into the reasons why I'm dissatisfied with the other place in detail. I don't think anything's to be gained by repeating them. I logged onto this site at approximately 11 o'clock last night, to see that the last post had been made 8 hours previously. How long before everyone just returns to the other place? I've repeatedly said that I favour a MindZone that doesn't accommodate those who 'want a brawl', that the focus should be on addressing the reasons why the MindZone hasn't proved satisfactory to members like you. |
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 8:49:49 GMT
I agree, Orac. You will recall that I prefer less rules, not more - in online discussion and in real-world politics. The balancing act is in acknowledging that some will exploit rules to target others, as you say, whilst at the same time others will exploit the lack of rules to target others - in online discussion and in real-world politics. They target to get a reaction, for instance Squeezy would regularly slip that I was an exploitative slave boss because I once reacted to it. He would fit that into conversations about completely different subjects. He wanted my reaction and he wasn't bothered about destroying the thread in the process so long as we could enjoy a few pages of disgusting insults until the whole thread got locked. The answer is don't react, but that just leads to the gang flooding the thread with "Zany doesn't deny it, what a hypocrite" and thus the thread is forgotten and destroyed anyway. Could the lite moderation stop these initial posts? I don't know, but I will vote with my feet if it does. |
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Post by RedRum on Apr 14, 2024 8:57:45 GMT
I have just logged on to the other place and have noticed that there are now a large number of locked threads.
I will be looking for a while before I confront Tinculin about my ban.
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 8:59:19 GMT
Have you considered the idea that if you bring the old forum here, then the same thing will happen here as happened there? That those who don't want a brawl will all leave again and leave the site vacuous. Can I ask, if you want the old site here why don't you just carry on there? As for good debate, I am quite enjoying the finesse of debate on this site and it still has opposing views. I've gone into the reasons why I'm dissatisfied with the other place in detail. I don't think anything's to be gained by repeating them. I logged onto this site at approximately 11 o'clock last night, to see that the last post had been made 8 hours previously. How long before everyone just returns to the other place? I've repeatedly said that I favour a MindZone that doesn't accommodate those who 'want a brawl', that the focus should be on addressing the reasons why the MindZone hasn't proved satisfactory to members like you. This site is still small, but it will grow if you join in when you visit. Or start threads about what gets your goat.  I and others have given my opinion of the mind zone, the other threads emptied as those wanting debate moved into it. The attackers got bored with each other and changed tactics to invade the mind zone and still managed to destroy those threads. We need to report thread destroyers without the stigma of 'tell tale git' or 'grow a pair' and we need mods to remove meaningless or insulting sentences. They don't need to get them all just enough to stop them destroying the continuity of the threads so that would be new members engage and trolls leave. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 9:00:49 GMT
I have just logged on to the other place and have noticed that there are now a large number of locked threads. I will be looking for a while before I confront Tinculin about my ban. A large number of 'protest' threads have simply vanished, even though they were posted in the Suggestions forum. |
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Post by Zany on Apr 14, 2024 9:01:23 GMT
I have just logged on to the other place and have noticed that there are now a large number of locked threads. I will be looking for a while before I confront Tinculin about my ban. That's interesting. Is Tinculin trying to stop the trolling or just shutting everyone down? |
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Post by equivocal on Apr 14, 2024 9:04:05 GMT
Isn't the usual wisdom that 'if you have to resort to impoliteness, there is something wrong with your arguments'? Why would this suddenly not be the case if it involves ideas your strongly disagree with? I don't believe it impolite to call a poster who glorifies terrorism a terrorist, one who posts explicitly racist views a racist or one who supports Shariah's approach to women a misogynist. Frankly, I find it bizarre and totally artificial to have a set of rules which prevent posters being called out for expressing views which are generally considered abhorrent in, to coin a phrase, polite society. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 9:05:44 GMT
I have just logged on to the other place and have noticed that there are now a large number of locked threads. I will be looking for a while before I confront Tinculin about my ban. That's interesting. Is Tinculin trying to stop the trolling or just shutting everyone down? If by 'shutting everyone down', you mean suspending those who question rules or their application in the appropriate place in the appropriate manner, and locking and 'disappearing' threads that question his decisions, then, yes, he is shutting everyone down. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 9:35:40 GMT
I have just logged on to the other place and have noticed that there are now a large number of locked threads. I will be looking for a while before I confront Tinculin about my ban. Best of luck (sincerely). However, I will be very surprised if the usual procedure is not followed; that is, Tinculin will lock the thread after giving himself the last word. |
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Post by dappy on Apr 14, 2024 12:17:28 GMT
I’ve never been a mod and frankly wouldn’t want to be.
I welcome contrary views as otherwise this would be dull.
I can usually tell when someone (whether on my side or the other) is being a dick. I suspect most people would judge the situation the same. In that situation, I would hope the mods would step in with initially gentle but potentially escalating interventions.
The other forum can be the place for bar room brawls - I hope this one can be for good natured debate. If it replicates the other, then it deserves to fail in my view.
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Post by RedRum on Apr 14, 2024 12:50:55 GMT
I have just logged on to the other place and have noticed that there are now a large number of locked threads. I will be looking for a while before I confront Tinculin about my ban. A large number of 'protest' threads have simply vanished, even though they were posted in the Suggestions forum. The thread that I started which is the thread in which I was banned has vanished. |
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Post by RedRum on Apr 14, 2024 12:54:24 GMT
I have just logged on to the other place and have noticed that there are now a large number of locked threads. I will be looking for a while before I confront Tinculin about my ban. That's interesting. Is Tinculin trying to stop the trolling or just shutting everyone down? Tinculin accused me of being a terrorist supporter and an anti-Semite. An anti-Semite would be indifferent to the Holocaust as Jewish people are not on the same level as others. No ban for Tinculin though. If you do not agree with him or are not persuaded by his 'argument' he shuts you down. |
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Post by Saint on Apr 14, 2024 13:13:03 GMT
That's interesting. Is Tinculin trying to stop the trolling or just shutting everyone down? Tinculin accused me of being a terrorist supporter and an anti-Semite. An anti-Semite would be indifferent to the Holocaust as Jewish people are not on the same level as others. No ban for Tinculin though. If you do not agree with him or are not persuaded by his 'argument' he shuts you down. I agree. The Nazis will be remembered for their anti-Semitism long after the invasion of Poland has been forgotten. Under Tinculin's rules, you can't equate somebody to a Nazi ... unless you are Tinculin. What's more, there's no parity of treatment. I questioned a mod decision in polite terms and received a two-week ban. Another member of this forum questioned a mod decision in stronger terms, questioned it again, and yet again, when his threads were deleted. He received no sanction whatsoever. Also consider that two members on the Right received a two-day suspension for calling someone a paedophile, while I received a two-week ban for politely questioning an extraordinary mod decision. Tinculin simply makes up the rules as he goes along. That is why members of his own mod team have questioned him. |
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