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Post by foldart on Oct 3, 2024 18:03:07 GMT
You are no more intelligent than the average oriental or Indian nor is it likely you have greater strength of character. It's not for you to decide whether the oriental or Indian can decide to wear an ancient symbol in their culture because your culture views it differently. So talking of patronising? We can forget all the above nonsense seeing as you appear to be wrong about Hindus and swastikas in Germany. Until you looked that up you didn’t have a clue and didn’t baulk at still banning it when I presented that scenario. |
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Post by foldart on Oct 3, 2024 18:05:56 GMT
. . .if you aren’t going to ban the burka because of your views then there is no consistency in banning an oriental or Indian wearing an ancient symbol because of your adverse views. . . Classic far right mindset. Don't like to make any allowance for something that you don't understand so want it banned. Not good I understand it only too well so you are saying France and the Netherlands have a far right mindset but are beside yourself in wishing to join them and the eu again is that something you understand? |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2024 18:08:58 GMT
We can forget all the above nonsense seeing as you appear to be wrong about Hindus and swastikas in Germany. Until you looked that up you didn’t have a clue and didn’t baulk at still banning it when I presented that scenario. Why do you think I looked it up? Anyway, here we are with you wishing to deny Muslim women the right to wear what they choose, but being perfectly happy to let non-Muslim women dress how they like. Now, that is illiberal. |
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Post by foldart on Oct 3, 2024 18:18:08 GMT
Until you looked that up you didn’t have a clue and didn’t baulk at still banning it when I presented that scenario. Why do you think I looked it up? Anyway, here we are with you wishing to deny Muslim women the right to wear what they choose, but being perfectly happy to let non-Muslim women dress how they like. Now, that is illiberal. No when I presented that scenario you had every opportunity to look it up and didn’t and still stuck to your I don’t care how old it is in another culture it’s how I view it that counts . You wait,then as an afterthought look it up to try to now justify your stance. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2024 18:23:01 GMT
Why do you think I looked it up? Anyway, here we are with you wishing to deny Muslim women the right to wear what they choose, but being perfectly happy to let non-Muslim women dress how they like. Now, that is illiberal. No when I presented that scenario you had every opportunity to look it up and didn’t and still stuck to your I don’t care how old it is in another culture it’s how I view it that counts . You wait,then as an afterthought look it up to try to now justify your stance. Bullshit! I knew that if the symbol was of any significance to the Hindu community they would have litigated its being banned. If it wasn't litigated, then it simply didn't matter to them. For all I knew, they wanted to disassociate themselves from the symbol. So, now that we've wasted time on your false premise, let's get down to the real issue: you are quite happy to forbid the right to dress as they please to Muslim women, but not non-Muslim women. |
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Post by foldart on Oct 3, 2024 18:33:46 GMT
No when I presented that scenario you had every opportunity to look it up and didn’t and still stuck to your I don’t care how old it is in another culture it’s how I view it that counts . You wait,then as an afterthought look it up to try to now justify your stance. Bullshit! I knew that if the symbol was of any significance to the Hindu community they would have litigated its being banned. If it wasn't litigated, then it simply didn't matter to them. For all I knew, they wanted to disassociate themselves from the symbol. So, now that we've wasted time on your false premise, let's get down to the real issue: you are quite happy to forbid the right to dress as they please to Muslim women, but not non-Muslim women. NoYou didn’t until you looked that up you didn’t have a clue,so why not admit it? If you feel your time is wasted the feeling is mutual. As for you bullshit comment if you knew that you wouldn’t have waited till the last less than a hour to say so. |
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Post by foldart on Oct 3, 2024 18:40:08 GMT
Anyway here I am being classic far right with a link to the British equivalent of Volkischer Beobachter which outlines precisely why a religious culture should not be allowed to impose its norms in a western democracy. link |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Oct 3, 2024 18:41:47 GMT
Anyway here I am being classic far right with a link to the British equivalent of Volkischer Beobachter which outlines precisely why a religious culture should not be allowed to impose its norms in a western democracy. . . The Church of England shouldn't |
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Post by foldart on Oct 3, 2024 18:47:09 GMT
Anyway here I am being classic far right with a link to the British equivalent of Volkischer Beobachter which outlines precisely why a religious culture should not be allowed to impose its norms in a western democracy. . . The Church of England shouldn't Don’t be silly the Church of England cannot rule legally on who can or cannot divorce From that link When was the last time the C of E had somebody imprisoned for complaining about being abused. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on Oct 3, 2024 18:54:16 GMT
Maybe you don't realise we live in the UK and not there. And 'in the UK' was what you were talking about.
So do you deny that the Church of England has a long track record of imposing 'its norms in a western democracy'? The very thing you were complaining about.
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Post by foldart on Oct 3, 2024 19:03:48 GMT
Maybe you don't realise we live in the UK and not there. And 'in the UK' was what you were talking about. So do you deny that the Church of England has a long track record of imposing 'its norms in a western democracy'? The very thing you were complaining about. Who takes notice of the Church of England? when the life of Brian was released who was subject to religious threat of death. If in the UK someone decided to make the life of Mo lampooning Mohamed what do you imagine would happen even if the spineless govt didn’t have it banned? |
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Post by Zany on Oct 3, 2024 19:15:23 GMT
Coerced or expected behaviour? They are very different. We expect children to wear a school uniform, are they coerced? We expect citizens to cover certain areas of their body in public, is that expectation or coercion? Shafila Ahmed accepted she had to wear her school uniform,she didn’t expect or accept she should have to go to Pakistani and marry her cousin so she drank bleach,eventually after many beatings because she preferred the western way of life they suffocated her and dumped her body. Well yes, but this is not the norm. We here of coercion, beatings and murder regularly in our own culture, but we don't assume its the norm. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 3, 2024 19:19:25 GMT
Yep - in the fifties, people in the UK lived in fear of getting on the wrong side of paramilitary wing of the Church of England
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Post by Zany on Oct 3, 2024 19:21:10 GMT
I think it's a difficult issue. The treatment of Muslims in, say, France and the Netherlands has, in my opinion, been broadly illiberal in the way those countries have 'forced' a form of integration. I think that illiberal treatment resulted in increasingly violent reactions which has fed into equally illiberal Far Right narratives and enabled the rise of people like LePen and Wilders.
I think the risk of a blanket ban in this country runs the risk of having the same effect. I also think you are right and the clothing is a symbol of the oppression of Muslim women, but I think the answer is probably persuasive acculturation rather than blunt force legislation.
Difficult issue perhaps but such laws cannot be selective to who they apply to because if a native of this country decided that they and their family should abide by the strictest of Victorian ideals and a child went to school and said her parents said she had to dress in that manner and when the time came a suitable partner would be selected for her to marry do you think social services would idly stand by? Conversely can you imagine a Muslim girl deciding to identify as a man? What do you think would be the reactions of the local Muslim community and the parents and do you think social services would be involved? Just my opinion but doesn’t when in Rome apply,after all if you visit a Muslim country and they say you have to cover up then you should abide by their rules in the same way when westerners have been caught with alcohol where it’s forbidden and they’re sentenced I have no sympathy they knew the score. Firstly you are wrong in your assumption of intolerance in Muslim countries, it might be true in a few backward ones, but in most cases it (alcohol etc) are very much tolerated. Secondly, why are you so keen that we copy what you advise is the worst of other countries? |
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Post by foldart on Oct 3, 2024 19:23:00 GMT
Difficult issue perhaps but such laws cannot be selective to who they apply to because if a native of this country decided that they and their family should abide by the strictest of Victorian ideals and a child went to school and said her parents said she had to dress in that manner and when the time came a suitable partner would be selected for her to marry do you think social services would idly stand by? Conversely can you imagine a Muslim girl deciding to identify as a man? What do you think would be the reactions of the local Muslim community and the parents and do you think social services would be involved? Just my opinion but doesn’t when in Rome apply,after all if you visit a Muslim country and they say you have to cover up then you should abide by their rules in the same way when westerners have been caught with alcohol where it’s forbidden and they’re sentenced I have no sympathy they knew the score. Firstly you are wrong in your assumption of intolerance in Muslim countries, it might be true in a few backward ones, but in most cases it (alcohol etc) are very much tolerated. Secondly, why are you so keen that we copy what you advise is the worst of other countries? So you believe the French and Dutch are doing their worst? |
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