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Post by foldart on Oct 4, 2024 21:38:16 GMT
This is my post 13 above yours on previous page where I imply all Muslims are bad You joining Steve in making stuff up I didn’t say No, I was picking up on your implication the Muslims living here is a bad idea because of the behaviour of some. I would be extremely glad for you to tell me I'm wrong and you are happy to invite them to live among us. No on the previous page you said this Your implication is I said all if you could point out where I would be most grateful. Mind I’m still waiting for Steve to recant on his fable of me and my non existent faith or his But you've spent page after page preaching hate of any religion you don't see as BritishAnd talking of implies that suggests multiple religions and wanting the oppression of women removed is hate,I would’ve thought those using a dress code to repress and dominate women are the haters. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on Oct 4, 2024 23:48:44 GMT
Do hold your breath and while you're doing so google DNFTT as clearly you didn't understand it.
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Post by foldart on Oct 5, 2024 5:35:45 GMT
Do hold your breath and while you're doing so google DNFTT as clearly you didn't understand it. Says the man who is known by so many as the Midas in reverse of political forums and they can’t all be wrong. The air of superiority as I told you some time ago that you are somehow better than all the other posters is misplaced. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 5, 2024 7:38:46 GMT
Ignoring semantic squabbles about precise definition, more or less. Most of the people labelled far right are just normal, working people who hold positions that would have been officially considered reasonable twenty five years ago. The establishment's slide into total insanity has left them behind and the establishment has responded by re-labeling ordinary political positions. I have no doubt the same thing happens in all regimes that slide into madness. Just behind the times then? It depends what you mean by 'the times'. 'The times' and what it contains and infers is a value judgment If you like the current political atmosphere of the establishment, you are likely going to feel normal people are malfunctioning in some way |
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Post by Orac on Oct 5, 2024 7:45:10 GMT
Thank you! You've been a wonderful audience. It's a pity the conversation forked into left versus right. The actual target i was aiming for was a long way from that, For example, take English culture - there is a fair amount of olde leftism in it. It's hardly an Ayn Rand debating society. |
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Post by Zany on Oct 5, 2024 8:02:28 GMT
No, I was picking up on your implication the Muslims living here is a bad idea because of the behaviour of some. I would be extremely glad for you to tell me I'm wrong and you are happy to invite them to live among us. No on the previous page you said this Your implication is I said all if you could point out where I would be most grateful. Mind I’m still waiting for Steve to recant on his fable of me and my non existent faith or his But you've spent page after page preaching hate of any religion you don't see as BritishAnd talking of implies that suggests multiple religions and wanting the oppression of women removed is hate,I would’ve thought those using a dress code to repress and dominate women are the haters. I would be extremely glad for you to tell me I'm wrong and you are happy to invite them to live among us. Simply answering this would clarify any misunderstanding between us. |
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Post by equivocal on Oct 5, 2024 8:56:47 GMT
No on the previous page you said this Your implication is I said all if you could point out where I would be most grateful. Mind I’m still waiting for Steve to recant on his fable of me and my non existent faith or his But you've spent page after page preaching hate of any religion you don't see as BritishAnd talking of implies that suggests multiple religions and wanting the oppression of women removed is hate,I would’ve thought those using a dress code to repress and dominate women are the haters. I would be extremely glad for you to tell me I'm wrong and you are happy to invite them to live among us. Simply answering this would clarify any misunderstanding between us. It's not for me to answer for Foldart, but I read his argument as saying the religiously approved garb for Muslim women represents a symbol of the oppression of women. Where this form oppression has taken root in the minds of some Muslims resident here it has expressed itself in total disrespect for immodestly dressed women, and one example of that disrespect was the oppression of young girls in the groomimg gang scandals. Personally, I do not see that as a particularly Right wing view, nor do I see it as suggesting all Muslims fall into the same category or are likely to err in the same way as the groomers.
I should say I have absolutely no problems with Muslims either living or practising their religion here. On the other hand, I would not be comfortable with members of my community treating women as somehow not worthy of respect unless clothed to a particular standard whether that disrespect arises through custom or religion of any denomination. That discomfort extends to those who disrespect Muslim women because they choose to wear religiously approved clothing, and that is one of the reasons I would not agree with a ban.
I also believe, for reasons already given, it would feed into a Far Right narrative.
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Post by Zany on Oct 5, 2024 9:17:21 GMT
I would be extremely glad for you to tell me I'm wrong and you are happy to invite them to live among us. Simply answering this would clarify any misunderstanding between us. It's not for me to answer for Foldart, but I read his argument as saying the religiously approved garb for Muslim women represents a symbol of the oppression of women. Where this form oppression has taken root in the minds of some Muslims resident here it has expressed itself in total disrespect for immodestly dressed women, and one example of that disrespect was the oppression of young girls in the groomimg gang scandals. Personally, I do not see that as a particularly Right wing view, nor do I see it as suggesting all Muslims fall into the same category or are likely to err in the same way as the groomers.
I should say I have absolutely no problems with Muslims either living or practising their religion here. On the other hand, I would not be comfortable with members of my community treating women as somehow not worthy of respect unless clothed to a particular standard whether that disrespect arises through custom or religion of any denomination. That discomfort extends to those who disrespect Muslim women because they choose to wear religiously approved clothing, and that is one of the reasons I would not agree with a ban.
I also believe, for reasons already given, it would feed into a Far Right narrative.
All you say above is true, but it also applied to actions of the Catholic church priests. Neither indicates that religions in the main should not be welcome here. Whether or not its Foldart's opinion that Muslims do not fit in the UK, it is certainly the opinion of a lot of far right supporters. So a simple clarification would be to answer my question as you have. |
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Post by equivocal on Oct 5, 2024 9:33:14 GMT
It's not for me to answer for Foldart, but I read his argument as saying the religiously approved garb for Muslim women represents a symbol of the oppression of women. Where this form oppression has taken root in the minds of some Muslims resident here it has expressed itself in total disrespect for immodestly dressed women, and one example of that disrespect was the oppression of young girls in the groomimg gang scandals. Personally, I do not see that as a particularly Right wing view, nor do I see it as suggesting all Muslims fall into the same category or are likely to err in the same way as the groomers.
I should say I have absolutely no problems with Muslims either living or practising their religion here. On the other hand, I would not be comfortable with members of my community treating women as somehow not worthy of respect unless clothed to a particular standard whether that disrespect arises through custom or religion of any denomination. That discomfort extends to those who disrespect Muslim women because they choose to wear religiously approved clothing, and that is one of the reasons I would not agree with a ban.
I also believe, for reasons already given, it would feed into a Far Right narrative.
All you say above is true, but it also applied to actions of the Catholic church priests. Neither indicates that religions in the main should not be welcome here. Whether or not its Foldart's opinion that Muslims do not fit in the UK, it is certainly the opinion of a lot of far right supporters. So a simple clarification would be to answer my question as you have. While it's true the Catholic church attempted to cover up the dreadful behaviour of some of its priests, I don't there is a version of Catholicism anywhere that holds children are unworthy of respect. I'm not sure that can be said of Islam and immodestly dressed women. I think I'd distinguish the elements of the analogy on that basis. |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
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Post by Steve on Oct 5, 2024 9:49:50 GMT
Do hold your breath and while you're doing so google DNFTT as clearly you didn't understand it. Says the man who is known by so many as the Midas in reverse of political forums and they can’t all be wrong. The air of superiority as I told you some time ago that you are somehow better than all the other posters is misplaced. And there you go trolling again, FWIW I don't care what losers and trolls call me. To the point at hand, you posted far right views and while you object about them being described as such you've miserably failed to show they're not. |
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Post by foldart on Oct 5, 2024 21:18:07 GMT
I pretty much agree with what equivocal posted,as far as the question posed by Zany I am not going to be pushed in to answering your post in an attempt to require me to justify what I posted.
I have made posts elsewhere regards my attitude to what is happening in both Gaza and the West Bank and my disdain for Netanyahu,that disdain doesn’t extend to the Jews as a people though I suspect were some posters here more inclined to Netanyahu I’d be portrayed as a far right nazi loving holocaust denier.
I have no problem with being challenged on what I post though I will argue till the cows come home in defence of what I post but anyone that knows me will agree that if proved to make a mistake or be wrong I will hold my hands up.
What I do find unacceptable is my posts being misrepresented to the point of claims portraying what I am not or have not posted.
A short while ago I came across this forum and was dismayed by a thread now gone that was purely around how much better those posters were than the posters they left at the other forum,clearly by much of that thread those who took part in it are not I said so and stand by that.
By my recent experience I find some are still of the opinion of their superiority of thought and action my mind is not changed because some are not ,a new forum was founded with ideas of how you wanted it to be which is fine and that should have satisfied but instead a few were still preoccupied with that they’d left and the goings on there instead of building what they have and they often refer to that place and their own superiority.
The internet is huge and every forum has its place and I’m comfortable posting at the other place but because people eff and Jeff or are sometimes aggressive in expressing themselves doesn’t make them stupid or lesser beings I have my own style of posting but don’t pretend I’m better than any there and I like the humour and by the number posting it’s obvious they’re doing something right.
There are people here like equivocal I respect others too who will know because I have told them so by pm in the past.
The ideal of polite posting isn’t a hardship for me and I’d like to say I’m comfortable posting here as any other forum but because of the above I’m not.
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Post by Zany on Oct 5, 2024 21:50:15 GMT
I pretty much agree with what equivocal posted,as far as the question posed by Zany I am not going to be pushed in to answering your post in an attempt to require me to justify what I posted. I have made posts elsewhere regards my attitude to what is happening in both Gaza and the West Bank and my disdain for Netanyahu,that disdain doesn’t extend to the Jews as a people though I suspect were some posters here more inclined to Netanyahu I’d be portrayed as a far right nazi loving holocaust denier. I have no problem with being challenged on what I post though I will argue till the cows come home in defence of what I post but anyone that knows me will agree that if proved to make a mistake or be wrong I will hold my hands up. What I do find unacceptable is my posts being misrepresented to the point of claims portraying what I am not or have not posted. A short while ago I came across this forum and was dismayed by a thread now gone that was purely around how much better those posters were than the posters they left at the other forum,clearly by much of that thread those who took part in it are not I said so and stand by that. By my recent experience I find some are still of the opinion of their superiority of thought and action my mind is not changed because some are not ,a new forum was founded with ideas of how you wanted it to be which is fine and that should have satisfied but instead a few were still preoccupied with that they’d left and the goings on there instead of building what they have and they often refer to that place and their own superiority. The internet is huge and every forum has its place and I’m comfortable posting at the other place but because people eff and Jeff or are sometimes aggressive in expressing themselves doesn’t make them stupid or lesser beings I have my own style of posting but don’t pretend I’m better than any there and I like the humour and by the number posting it’s obvious they’re doing something right. There are people here like equivocal I respect others too who will know because I have told them so by pm in the past. The ideal of polite posting isn’t a hardship for me and I’d like to say I’m comfortable posting here as any other forum but because of the above I’m not. Under my moderation politeness played only a small part. What I wished to stop was prevarication, dodging, word games and all the other stuff involved in trolling forums. Your refusal to answer a simple question from me tells you would not enjoy my moderation. Its not as if the question is complex or awkward. You argue that you never said this or that thing, that indicates your bias against Muslims living in the UK. but you are unwilling to answer a simple question on them living amongst us. |
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Post by foldart on Oct 5, 2024 22:05:36 GMT
I pretty much agree with what equivocal posted,as far as the question posed by Zany I am not going to be pushed in to answering your post in an attempt to require me to justify what I posted. I have made posts elsewhere regards my attitude to what is happening in both Gaza and the West Bank and my disdain for Netanyahu,that disdain doesn’t extend to the Jews as a people though I suspect were some posters here more inclined to Netanyahu I’d be portrayed as a far right nazi loving holocaust denier. I have no problem with being challenged on what I post though I will argue till the cows come home in defence of what I post but anyone that knows me will agree that if proved to make a mistake or be wrong I will hold my hands up. What I do find unacceptable is my posts being misrepresented to the point of claims portraying what I am not or have not posted. A short while ago I came across this forum and was dismayed by a thread now gone that was purely around how much better those posters were than the posters they left at the other forum,clearly by much of that thread those who took part in it are not I said so and stand by that. By my recent experience I find some are still of the opinion of their superiority of thought and action my mind is not changed because some are not ,a new forum was founded with ideas of how you wanted it to be which is fine and that should have satisfied but instead a few were still preoccupied with that they’d left and the goings on there instead of building what they have and they often refer to that place and their own superiority. The internet is huge and every forum has its place and I’m comfortable posting at the other place but because people eff and Jeff or are sometimes aggressive in expressing themselves doesn’t make them stupid or lesser beings I have my own style of posting but don’t pretend I’m better than any there and I like the humour and by the number posting it’s obvious they’re doing something right. There are people here like equivocal I respect others too who will know because I have told them so by pm in the past. The ideal of polite posting isn’t a hardship for me and I’d like to say I’m comfortable posting here as any other forum but because of the above I’m not. Under my moderation politeness played only a small part. What I wished to stop was prevarication, dodging, word games and all the other stuff involved in trolling forums. Your refusal to answer a simple question from me tells you would not enjoy my moderation. It’s not as if the question is complex or awkward. You argue that you never said this or that thing, that indicates your bias against Muslims living in the UK. but you are unwilling to answer a simple question on them living amongst us. No I argue when I’m misrepresented and as far as word games do you ever read what Steve posts at times? The only bias indicated is that invented in your own mind. |
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Post by Zany on Oct 5, 2024 22:10:26 GMT
Under my moderation politeness played only a small part. What I wished to stop was prevarication, dodging, word games and all the other stuff involved in trolling forums. Your refusal to answer a simple question from me tells you would not enjoy my moderation. It’s not as if the question is complex or awkward. You argue that you never said this or that thing, that indicates your bias against Muslims living in the UK. but you are unwilling to answer a simple question on them living amongst us. No I argue when I’m misrepresented and as far as word games do you ever read what Steve posts at times? The only bias indicated is that invented in your own mind. Yet any perceived misrepresentation could have been easily dispelled by answering my post, |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,698
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Post by Steve on Oct 5, 2024 22:40:59 GMT
. .and as far as word games do you ever read what Steve posts at times? . .. Do you? You reacted badly to me saying you were seeking to have the burka banned and then finally (Oct 3, 2024 at 10:53pm) admitted you actually did want it banned. You say you find Sikhs acceptably British but not the various varieties of Muslims who you wish to oppress by denying Muslim women the right to wear a burka even if they wish. And according to you this and how it looks is all my fault. |
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