Winter Fuel Allowance

So do you think it would be a reasonable representation to say that it's not "fair" (as those who have gone without to fund a pension could end up with the same pension as those who have not) but it is pragmatic (no one really wants pensioners dying of hypothermia regardless of how bad they were with money)

Fair is a difficult concept but broadly that is the concept of this and other benefit safety nets.

So it looks like my understanding is wrong from a bit of googling:
Pension Credit tops up whatever your income is to 218
Full state pension is 221.
So pension credit is for people who have for some are not entitled to full state pension
So I don't think my example is correct because it appears to have nothing to do with what money you have put into a private/work related pension

I think you were broadly right as I understand it. It ensures you have enough income (or assets) to live. It’s a bit complicated as housing costs can come into the equation, but ignoring that if you have a full state pension you won’t qualify. If for some reason you don’t, they look at your total income from any reduced state pension plus any private pension plus any other sources of income. If that total is less than broadly the state pension then pension credit tops it up to almost that figure.

I took umbrage at Stupid and explained why.
I said nothing about people being smart.
You introduced the idea that people who paid the minimum expected a big fat pension...I don't think I posted anything like that in this thread or know how it would be possible to know what people expected or what was going on in their minds or lives.

It is generally agreed by everyone that the welfare bill is becoming unsustainable. If we have to cut it  it makes sense to start with those who dont actually need it. As far as pensioners are concerned, most of them have far fewer outgoings than the average working person whilst being entitled to much more generous minimum income guarantees than working age people. Thus even the poorest pensioners - if they are claiming what they are due - are substantially better off than millions of the working poor. For any not claiming what they are due, their not claiming is the problem, not welfare support levels or an insufficiency of freebies. If they are struggling they need only contact Age Concern or some such charity who will help them claim.  

And we have had prescription charges since the 1970s, so free at the point of use went out of the window a long time back re over the counter meds. I recall the Tories used to justify high prescription charges on the supposed basis that 80 percent of people didnt pay them. Problem is that whilst that 80 percent included many who could easily afford them, the 20 percent who had to pay managed to include many poor people, due to the ad hoc nature of the exemptions criteria. Better to either abolish the charges for everyone if this is affordable, or if monies need to be raised to remove the exemption from the better off of any age.

And as for what the rich object to, I don't care. Prescription charges are mere chicken feed to them. And I don't buy the "I don't use it so why should I pay for it" argument. Firstly re prescriptions they would only be paying for meds they are actually going to be using. And the "I dont use it" argument could just as easily be invoked by me since I never had  children so why should I have to pay to educate everyone else's? Of course, I don't say that because that really would be thinking like a Tory.  And wanting to keep handouts for the better off and preferring to hit the poor would also be thinking like a Tory. I would rather, if savings have to be made, see  handouts and freebies removed from the better off so we don't have to hit the poor as usual. That is not thinking like any Tory I have ever known. Nor is it spiteful if cuts need to be made for those who can afford to bear them to take the hit rather than those who cant.

Incidentally, my 79 year old mum is one of the poorer pensioners with a state pension and small private pension. She also gets pension credit as well as her rent and council tax paid in full. In spite of having lent 2k to me she has nearly 6k in her current account because she has more coming in than she really knows what to do with. And yet any pensioner would need to be substantially better off than my mum not to be exempt from the proposed cuts. When I think of the example of my mum, who struggled all her life until she hit retirement, I struggle to believe that pensioner poverty is a thing anymore except perhaps for those not claiming what they ought to be or who have execeptional circumstances of some kind, eg large debts. Naturally I dont begrudge any of this to my mum and similar pensioners. But those who are significantly better off even than this clearly are not in dire need of freebies. And it is not spiteful to acknowledge that in these straitened times.

OK well there is nothing there we disagree on. I do not see/hear people constantly complaining about our poor pensions. What I come across more is the line "well we have paid for our pension" which is annoying AF given that's not how pensions work and it could be argued pensions are such a mess because successive governments, rather than adjusting the system due to demographic changes kick it down the road like the gutless wonders they all are.