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Post by Zany on Aug 16, 2024 16:57:55 GMT
Sure, reform winter fuel allowance but don't just remove it from all except those on means-tested benefits, a lot of people don't even know they're entitled and are in poverty - that sucks, how can that be right Well, you're asking for a list, but I've posted plenty across this Labour Party forum already, you've mostly chosen to downplay it, there's not much else I can do about it, but I'm sure I can keep going as more and more things come out which mark my words, they will. Be careful what you wish for. If you are asking for me to give you a full list of Labour's wrongs I will absolutely happily indulge you, you might not like it so much when you finally see it, I'm still digging up what they've done and it takes time Well its all a bit soon and the country is in a mess, so if something had to give I would rather it was this. If you can't give a list fair enough. but from what I have read most of your list is supposition and assumption. And frankly grasping at straws. I am asking you for a list of THIS governments wrongs, not a history of the Labour movement. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2024 0:22:44 GMT
I've given plenty of examples. I'm not going to relink to all the threads.
If you choose to downplay this as a deliberate strategy to attack my argument, fair do's but that's all it is, does not reduce the truth of what I've posted in any thread
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Post by Zany on Aug 17, 2024 6:01:35 GMT
I've given plenty of examples. I'm not going to relink to all the threads. If you choose to downplay this as a deliberate strategy to attack my argument, fair do's but that's all it is, does not reduce the truth of what I've posted in any thread You choose to support your argument by claiming those who disagree with you are down playing valid points. But if they are valid they should be prominent in your mind and easy to list. Personally I don't think Labour have been in power long enough for judgement. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2024 7:31:33 GMT
They haven't been in power long, but we can judge what they've already done and what they say they plan to do.
I'm not sure why I should relink to valid points across threads in the entire forum.
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Post by Zany on Aug 17, 2024 8:32:55 GMT
They haven't been in power long, but we can judge what they've already done and what they say they plan to do. I'm not sure why I should relink to valid points across threads in the entire forum. You can if you want, for me its too early to judge, especially considering what they inherited. I didn't ask for links, just your main gripes which I assume you'd know. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2024 5:43:34 GMT
I've given huge lists of gripes on the forum many times over now, there's such a thing as 'sealioning' which is asking the same question as a form of denial-of-service. It seems to me you're engaging in that.
I'll do this one more time, please don't ask me again after this
WFA cuts
Purging Labour of the left/ruling over it like a dictator/purging those MPs recently
Pushing right-wing rhetoric about things like private healthcare and immigration
Draconian crackdown on protest that even YOU disagree with, in line with what the Tories were doing and continuing their policies
Refusing to give Scotland indyref - Starmer ruled it out, that's undemocratic
Refusing to give NI a border poll
Cronyism in the civil service
Corruption allegations and scandals among Labour MPs not sufficiently dealt with
Islamophobia not dealt with
Anti-semitism not dealt with
I'm sure I could continue with this list all day and night if I so wished, but you won't take it onboard anyway.
Let's keep going for at least 1 more min:
Embracing dictators like India's Modi
Disabled people not being helped, continuing with many cruel DWP policies
Constant u-turns on all pledges, constantly shifting like saharan sands
Courting the right-wing media with populist guff
Pushing both virtue-signalling right-wing populist policies as well as rather crazy woke ones at the same time
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Post by Zany on Aug 18, 2024 7:33:54 GMT
I've given huge lists of gripes on the forum many times over now, there's such a thing as 'sealioning' which is asking the same question as a form of denial-of-service. It seems to me you're engaging in that. I'll do this one more time, please don't ask me again after this 1,WFA cuts 2, Purging Labour of the left/ruling over it like a dictator/purging those MPs recently 3, Pushing right-wing rhetoric about things like private healthcare and immigration 4, Draconian crackdown on protest that even YOU disagree with, in line with what the Tories were doing and continuing their policies 5, Refusing to give Scotland indyref - Starmer ruled it out, that's undemocratic 6, Refusing to give NI a border poll 7, Cronyism in the civil service 8, Corruption allegations and scandals among Labour MPs not sufficiently dealt with 9, Islamophobia not dealt with 10, Anti-semitism not dealt with I'm sure I could continue with this list all day and night if I so wished, but you won't take it onboard anyway. Let's keep going for at least 1 more min: Embracing dictators like India's Modi Disabled people not being helped, continuing with many cruel DWP policies Constant u-turns on all pledges, constantly shifting like saharan sands Courting the right-wing media with populist guff Pushing both virtue-signalling right-wing populist policies as well as rather crazy woke ones at the same time Thank you. This is the list I was expecting, but its difficult to answer bland statements if the accuser refuses to list their gripes. It makes challenging a constantly moving target. 1, We covered this. I gave my view that if a cut was to be made then a universal benefit was the place to do it. 2, We disagreed here, you followed up by offering no evidence. 3, IMO the labour party had to move rightwards to get elected, just like under Blair. Like it or not that's what the voters want. 4, Confusing two things here. I support the harsh sentences for people smashing up shops and attacking immigrants, but not for the JSO protests. But the JSO sentences are nothing to do with the governments new policy. 5, As I have said, IMO a referendum should be based of previous polls showing good support for it. In this case the polls say opposite. 6, Not familiar with this will raise separately with you. 7, Labour have been in power 4 weeks, how can they be responsible for Cronyism in the civil service? 8, Corruption on a very minor scale IMO. If at all. 9 and 10, Very difficult to deal with. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2024 7:37:58 GMT
No evidence that Lab has been acting dictatorially other than all the statements from Hodge, Cruddas I've linked here? All the MPs purged I proved with links. All the others who complain in the media who are centre left about Lab unaccountability. No evidence other than Starmer's own words. I could go on to talk about their internal democratic processes but no point clearly
Proof that you simply ignore evidence you don't like. Every point in your counter-list is simply ridiculous.
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Post by Zany on Aug 18, 2024 7:40:01 GMT
Borg0 wrote: Refusing to give NI a border poll.
Just starting to look into this. Can you start with what you think the poll choices should be.
My concerns are obviously around re-starting the war.
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 18, 2024 14:10:29 GMT
Borg0 wrote: Refusing to give NI a border poll. Just starting to look into this. Can you start with what you think the poll choices should be. My concerns are obviously around re-starting the war. The GFA condition for a border plebiscite has not been met. I don't know why anyone would suggest it has. For anyone to suggest Labour dishonesty in not calling one is ironically dishonest in itself. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2024 20:35:31 GMT
Borg0 wrote: Refusing to give NI a border poll. Just starting to look into this. Can you start with what you think the poll choices should be. My concerns are obviously around re-starting the war. The GFA condition for a border plebiscite has not been met. I don't know why anyone would suggest it has. For anyone to suggest Labour dishonesty in not calling one is ironically dishonest in itself. Not sure I said it was 'Labour dishonesty' at any point unless you can quote me doing so, that would be dishonestly sticking words in someone's mouth - again I believe my point was that Labour are denying people democracy, which they are, just as with the Scot indy ref. The fact is SF are the biggest party in Stormont yes or no?? What's that tell you |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 18, 2024 22:36:49 GMT
So are you saying you didn't post these comments?
'We all know Labour are pro-corporate Red Tories at this point don't we?'
'right wing Tory labour in the form of Keir Starmer offer no suitable alternative and are going to trash the country as much as the Tories'
'You won't get this Lab govt caring about disabled people will you? They don't give a stuff about them'
'It's the sheer lack of principles with Labour that have me shaking my head'
And more and yet you say you weren't insinuating dishonesty
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2024 23:40:25 GMT
Where in that post is dishonesty even mentioned??
Lacking principles is correct, they do lack principles, hence they copy Tory policies like austerity, that's not the same thing as dishonesty. You're just lumping in all in together and then dishonestly saying I'm alleging the very thing you're accusing me of
It's hard to make this stuff up
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 19, 2024 0:17:15 GMT
You may not use the word but your allegations about them throughout this thread are all about affecting to be a party of the left while actually being one of the right - ie a dishonest stance.
But they aren't.
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Post by Zany on Aug 19, 2024 7:33:55 GMT
You may not use the word but your allegations about them throughout this thread are all about affecting to be a party of the left while actually being one of the right - ie a dishonest stance. But they aren't. Agreed. |
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