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Post by Zany on Aug 15, 2024 7:41:58 GMT
Yep, every time a party veers from the current centre they get kicked out. Talk about slow learners. Change does happen but it happens over many decades, not 5 years. Well to use an example from here in the USA: Kyrsten Sinema and Joe Manchin were "blue dog" right wing Democrats. I have no issue with that in particular as long as they're principled but Manchin was part of a coal mine operation that broke the law so many times it defied belief and was funded by GOP billionaires. And Sinema? Where to start? www.commondreams.org/news/2021/09/27/cartoonish-level-corrupt-dems-fight-bold-agenda-sinema-fundraise-its-corporateI can't stand socialists like Corbyn who have no principles either, same as Starmer, same as the likes of Sinema, Manchin etc. There's no difference as far as I'm concerned, stick right-wing Tories in for all I care as long as they have principles and love the country and try to do the best by it that they can. That's literally all I care about You won't get this Lab govt caring about disabled people will you? They don't give a stuff about them This sort of post does you no credit. The Labour party have been in power a month and you read, don't know yet as don't care. Talk about seeking failure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2024 9:01:05 GMT
Not sure what you're saying with your post above, it makes little sense, could you reword?
My point is that IF the Tories had principles (I'm not saying they do) I wouldn't be bothered with a right-wing Tory in power or a socialist (their ideology I'm dead set against) if they had principles OR a centrist, whether centre right or left
It's the sheer lack of principles with Labour that have me shaking my head, same with all the other parties you care to mention, it's not about whether they're left or right.
Look at all the factual stuff posted about Lab, look at how they've removed the winter fuel allowance from pensioners for goodness sakes. I haven't given them a chance? What, by looking at their actual policies and what they're actually doing I haven't given them a chance..?
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 15, 2024 9:10:44 GMT
Labour (and now the SNP) have only removed the Winter Fuel Allowance from most pensioners, the poorest are still going to get it.
To suggest most politicians of any party have no principles is ludicrous.
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Post by AvonCalling on Aug 15, 2024 11:13:09 GMT
I am not sure if Parties have principles. Individuals have principles or may have principles. If You Borg think that labour have no principles can you give me one example so we can discuss this?
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Post by Zany on Aug 15, 2024 15:26:45 GMT
Not sure what you're saying with your post above, it makes little sense, could you reword? My point is that IF the Tories had principles (I'm not saying they do) I wouldn't be bothered with a right-wing Tory in power or a socialist (their ideology I'm dead set against) if they had principles OR a centrist, whether centre right or left It's the sheer lack of principles with Labour that have me shaking my head, same with all the other parties you care to mention, it's not about whether they're left or right. Look at all the factual stuff posted about Lab, look at how they've removed the winter fuel allowance from pensioners for goodness sakes. I haven't given them a chance? What, by looking at their actual policies and what they're actually doing I haven't given them a chance..? Yes ofcourse (First its me, NOT mod me) Its as I said in 4 weeks of running the country you have already decided that Labour don't give a stuff about disabled people, based on single actions and sweeping statements. For instance they have not removed the winter fuel allowance from pensioners just from pensioners who don't need it (Except maybe a few exceptional cases, which is always the way of it) Further you don't know if having sorted the countries finances they wont make things better for the disabled. 4 weeks is to short a time to pass judgement, especially as you cannot be unaware of the problems they've inherited.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2024 21:38:04 GMT
Labour (and now the SNP) have only removed the Winter Fuel Allowance from most pensioners, the poorest are still going to get it. There are 800k pensioners who are eligible for PC who don't claim it. There are many who aren't eligible for means tested benefits who are still poor. The poorest aren't necessarily all going to get it. So most in the HoC have principles? Interesting, guess the MP expenses scandals said differently, how many MPs didn't cheat on that?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2024 21:38:48 GMT
I am not sure if Parties have principles. Individuals have principles or may have principles. If You Borg think that labour have no principles can you give me one example so we can discuss this? Sure, them criticising the Tories for wanting to cut winter fuel payments then doing same
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2024 21:40:29 GMT
Not sure what you're saying with your post above, it makes little sense, could you reword? My point is that IF the Tories had principles (I'm not saying they do) I wouldn't be bothered with a right-wing Tory in power or a socialist (their ideology I'm dead set against) if they had principles OR a centrist, whether centre right or left It's the sheer lack of principles with Labour that have me shaking my head, same with all the other parties you care to mention, it's not about whether they're left or right. Look at all the factual stuff posted about Lab, look at how they've removed the winter fuel allowance from pensioners for goodness sakes. I haven't given them a chance? What, by looking at their actual policies and what they're actually doing I haven't given them a chance..? Yes ofcourse (First its me, NOT mod me) Its as I said in 4 weeks of running the country you have already decided that Labour don't give a stuff about disabled people, based on single actions and sweeping statements. For instance they have not removed the winter fuel allowance from pensioners just from pensioners who don't need it (Except maybe a few exceptional cases, which is always the way of it) Further you don't know if having sorted the countries finances they wont make things better for the disabled. 4 weeks is to short a time to pass judgement, especially as you cannot be unaware of the problems they've inherited. 800,000 are eligible for pension credit but don't claim it, only 21% of those eligible do. That's a large number who now won't get the WFA, no sweeping statements there The fact is everything Labour intend to do or have done so far has made things worse, with maybe 3 exceptions such as the ASLEF deal, so no I'm going on their record, actions and intended actions and words so far
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 15, 2024 21:59:12 GMT
Labour (and now the SNP) have only removed the Winter Fuel Allowance from most pensioners, the poorest are still going to get it. There are 800k pensioners who are eligible for PC who don't claim it. There are many who aren't eligible for means tested benefits who are still poor. The poorest aren't necessarily all going to get it. So most in the HoC have principles? Interesting, guess the MP expenses scandals said differently, how many MPs didn't cheat on that? Overwhelmingly most of them didn't. Do keep up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2024 22:20:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2024 22:22:21 GMT
Oh, just stumbled upon my answer in that OpenDemocracy bit above "After the scandal broke, more than half of MPs agreed to pay back the money and a new expenses watchdog was set up, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA)" More than half.. QED
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 15, 2024 22:43:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2024 22:51:35 GMT
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 15, 2024 23:01:25 GMT
Your new article contains not a shred of evidence about further MPs allegedly cheating. You were wrong, get over it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2024 23:05:48 GMT
How can I be wrong about something I never said? Above I asked questions but as usual you seem to want to force your opinion on the issue, then I posted what OpenDemocracy was saying - and they were right, so no I wasn't wrong was I? The fact is the OpenDemocracy link said: '"After the scandal broke, more than half of MPs agreed to pay back the money and a new expenses watchdog was set up, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA)" It's also in the Torygraph for your enjoyment archive.ph/U9jyI'm really rather sick of that tone "you were wrong, get over it". It's not just me who's sick of it here as well is it?
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