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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2024 8:16:03 GMT
Worse than that. Our bizarre benefits system means there are a number of circumstances where a £1 increase in own income results in a far bigger overall income loss. I am afraid it was ever thus for people of all ages and is borne of the fact that unless a benefit is universal there has to be a cut off point somewhere. This is unfortunate for those just on the wrong side of it, but to address this problem by a complicated taper would require a huge amount of added complications and related expense. If those on the wrong side of the cut off point are struggling financially that might be an argument for a higher cut off point but there has to be one somewhere. And basing it on means tested benefit entitlement - which is already set at a far more generous level for pensioners than for the working age population - is the simplest way of doing it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2024 11:11:30 GMT
My take on welfare spending is this. We have created a very high rent/low wage economy, so that millions of even working people are partly reliant on welfare just to survive, with all its attendant disincentivising benefits traps. In the medium to long term we have to reverse that equation so that we become a low rent/high wage economy. Do that and most working people will no longer need welfare support at all.
In the meantime the nation is struggling under the financial burden of welfare. Because a high rent/low wage economy is also a disincentivising welfare economy, with taxpayers who might themselves also be low paid workers having to subsidise the high rents and low wages of others.
Until we change that welfare is a necessary evil, however costly, if we are to avoid utter destitution of third world proportions for millions of people.
But with such a massive burden being imposed upon us by high rent landlords and low wage employers, the last thing we should be doing is supplying welfare handouts to those who clearly don't need them. How can we possibly justify giving winter fuel payments to retired millionaires, when we can't lift the two child welfare cap for children living in poverty? And just because a millionaire might be disabled it doesnt mean he needs welfare support either.
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Post by Zany on Jul 30, 2024 14:23:06 GMT
Worse than that. Our bizarre benefits system means there are a number of circumstances where a £1 increase in own income results in a far bigger overall income loss. Indeed we are constantly hearing about carers losing all benefits if they break the threshold by even a tiny amount. I rather hoped this government might re-think that for means tested winter fuel allowance. |
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Post by dappy on Jul 30, 2024 15:30:55 GMT
Danger is if they make it a complicated sliding scale, the admin costs of running it may be more than the cost saved from stopping it being universal.
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Post by Zany on Jul 30, 2024 16:08:31 GMT
Danger is if they make it a complicated sliding scale, the admin costs of running it may be more than the cost saved from stopping it being universal. That's always a worry, but the current system has many issues too. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 30, 2024 16:23:24 GMT
Danger is if they make it a complicated sliding scale, the admin costs of running it may be more than the cost saved from stopping it being universal. So she'd have been better killing off Winter Fuel Allowance completely and raising Pension Credit to compensate those most in need. PS Apologies for wrongly mentioning Universal Credit above. UC is not payable to those above pension age, that's where Pension Credit kicks in for the eligible www.gov.uk/pension-credit |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 31, 2024 22:25:25 GMT
And hey presto an example of where this policy is having the effect of a 300% tax for one poor sod www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gykdxvyvo 'Rob Trewhella, 67, says his weekly pension is £2 a week too high to be able to claim pension credit.
This means he will no longer receive fuel payments, making him feel "annoyed and angry". |
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Post by Zany on Aug 1, 2024 6:39:10 GMT
And hey presto an example of where this policy is having the effect of a 300% tax for one poor sod www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gykdxvyvo 'Rob Trewhella, 67, says his weekly pension is £2 a week too high to be able to claim pension credit.
This means he will no longer receive fuel payments, making him feel "annoyed and angry".He's 67 and healthy, why the heck has he stopped working. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 1, 2024 7:57:34 GMT
And hey presto an example of where this policy is having the effect of a 300% tax for one poor sod www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gykdxvyvo 'Rob Trewhella, 67, says his weekly pension is £2 a week too high to be able to claim pension credit.
This means he will no longer receive fuel payments, making him feel "annoyed and angry".He's 67 and healthy, why the heck has he stopped working. No he isn't
'He did not expect to have to work in his late 60s, and health problems, including diabetes and high blood pressure, mean he fears he may fail a medical exam and lose his livelihood.' |
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Post by Zany on Aug 1, 2024 8:19:40 GMT
He's 67 and healthy, why the heck has he stopped working. No he isn't
'He did not expect to have to work in his late 60s, and health problems, including diabetes and high blood pressure, mean he fears he may fail a medical exam and lose his livelihood.'Loads of people have high blood pressure and diabetes. He has just taken a job as a taxi driver. There are loads of jobs where high blood pressure and diabetes do not effect your ability to work. I wonder your reaction is he was 46 and claiming benefits because he feared he might fail a medical examination he hadn't taken. Fact is at 67 you don't retire unless you can afford to. And you shouldn't rely on handouts from others to enable you to do so. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 1, 2024 8:26:57 GMT
You don't know why he gave up work or how serious those conditions are for him.
And the point is for £2 a week he is losing £200 (maybe £300) that's at least a 200% rate of tax. We should be better than that.
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Post by patman post on Aug 1, 2024 13:54:55 GMT
He's 67 and healthy, why the heck has he stopped working. No he isn't
'He did not expect to have to work in his late 60s, and health problems, including diabetes and high blood pressure, mean he fears he may fail a medical exam and lose his livelihood.'That's where benefits kick in — Winter Fuel Payment is an annual tax-free payment for households that include someone born on or before 22 September 1958 (for 2024-25) and, from 2024 onwards, receive Pension Credit, Universal Credit, Income Support, income-based Jobseeker's Allowance or income-related Employment and Support Allowance... |
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Post by Zany on Aug 1, 2024 14:52:11 GMT
You don't know why he gave up work or how serious those conditions are for him. And the point is for £2 a week he is losing £200 (maybe £300) that's at least a 200% rate of tax. We should be better than that. Not quite. He is losing £150 for £44.00 of extra money. I do know he's not a brilliant example. www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/pensioner-surviving-6-month-forced-32236255Same guy making the same claim in February. (No winter allowance mentioned that time of course) A pensioner has been forced to start working again because he only had £6 left each month. Rob Trewhella, 67, from Penzance, can't get by on just his State Pension of £814 a month but his rent is £675, council tax is £104, and electricity about £40. Oh look he had to start working again back then too. The only man I know who thought he wouldn't pay tax on his private pension. His own words sum him up well Rob, who used to be a tree surgeon and butcher, is angry his pension will now be taxed. "Why is it that I started work at 18 when I left college and I have been paying tax and national insurance all my working life?"You don't realise this as you are drifting through life. I thought I would retire and not have to get up in the morning. I live in a beautiful part of the country. I thought I would be able to go out and for walks and buy a pasty. I don't drink, I play quiz on Tuesday evening on my night off. But I drink ginger beer so I'm a cheap date."Thought, but didn't plan. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Aug 1, 2024 16:13:24 GMT
But he's still a valid example of this horrendous marginal tax rate Reeves has imposed on some. On your figures ~300%
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Post by Zany on Aug 1, 2024 18:16:33 GMT
But he's still a valid example of this horrendous marginal tax rate Reeves has imposed on some. Kind of, wherever there's a cut off there will be someone who misses out, but the guy is not on disability benefit and is quite capable of working, he just doesn't want to. Again not really. he's paying tax, so he's on atleast £13,000 a year. So £5,500 over the winter period. He's losing £106.00 over that period. so circa 2% down. |
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