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Post by Zany on Jul 24, 2024 14:20:21 GMT
Having driven back from The Lakes to Cambridge today on the M6 I noticed an enormous number of speed limit changes 40 then 50 then 40 then 60 then 40 on and on, it was dangerous having to keep changing speed with other drivers ignoring the changes or not slowing as fast as I. The reason I stuck to these limits so religiously is that I got caught a year ago after a red motorway warning light up ahead saying 40. I gently slowed down and passed the sign with all the other traffic doing around 50. A firestorm of flashes went off behind me and I and probably 6 other drivers all got £100 speeding fines. (FYI The reason for the 40 turned out to be a broken down lorry on the hard shoulder some two miles further up the road) Anyway. I got to wondering if all these speed changes were just a money making scheme, so when I got home I looked it up. I found this: UK drivers are paying £25,279,010 more in fines than in 2015www.wessexfleet.co.uk/blog/2022/03/02/driving-fines-that-cost-people-the-most-money/and this. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10255887/NSW-speed-camera-fines-inquiry-revenue-skyrocketed-20million.htmlMany have argued in the past that speed cameras were just road tax machines and I did not agree, but these numbers are troubling. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2024 14:44:21 GMT
Interestingly I've just successfully challenged two fines they wanted me to pay (the signage was woefully inadequate and fortunately I still had the dashcam imagery) *
I don't think those speed limits are there for revenue and I don't think they're unreasonable WHEN people are working but what we are seeing so often nowadays is the work only taking place at night and yet the speed limits are there 24/7 and all because the powers that be are too idle to put in place either a subsign (8pm to 6am) or electronic signs that change when people are working.
And to use a Trussism 'that is A DISGRACE'
It might be possible to get a legal challenge to those limits as being unreasonable but it would cost £££ so don't expect me to lead it.
* not speeding but driving in bus lane
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Post by Zany on Jul 24, 2024 14:58:47 GMT
Interestingly I've just successfully challenged two fines they wanted me to pay (the signage was woefully inadequate and fortunately I still had the dashcam imagery) * I don't think those speed limits are there for revenue and I don't think they're unreasonable WHEN people are working but what we are seeing so often nowadays is the work only taking place at night and yet the speed limits are there 24/7 and all because the powers that be are too idle to put in place either a subsign (8pm to 6am) or electronic signs that change when people are working. And to use a Trussism 'that is A DISGRACE' It might be possible to get a legal challenge to those limits as being unreasonable but it would cost £££ so don't expect me to lead it. * not speeding but driving in bus lane Yes to back your argument. all the speed safety lights I passed were for ongoing road upgrades but there was no sign of any work vehicles or anyone working for the full 40 mile stretch. Further some of the signs were contradictory with 50mph road work signs a few meters before gantry 40mph signs. Even my cars auto camera system struggled, god knows what it would be like in an older vehicle. We have a huge section of dual carriageway I regularly use that is restricted to 40mph for 12 miles. The reason given on the sign. "Danger of flooding" It has been like this since last November. There is a police camera van on this road daily gathering income from all those who ignore this danger of flooding In July, long after the surrounding flooded fields have dried out) Is this safety gone mad or revenue collection. Welll done for standing up and challenging your own fines. There is a badly positioned "buses only sign" in Nottingham which is locally known as the 'Parliament street Toll.' |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2024 15:03:27 GMT
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2024 15:08:57 GMT
Here's a piece of advice I got from a 'Speed Awareness' course I took a few years ago and have used ever since to be almost  like: If your car has a speed limiter, use it. if it doesn't then it probably is a manual so never put it in a gear higher than 1/10 of the speed limit (ie 2nd gear for 20mph, third gear for 30 mph, 4th for 40 mph etc) It works and despite my huge cynicism before the course, I was very impressed by the tone and practical nature of the course. Way way better than the alternative of 3 points + fine. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 24, 2024 15:36:30 GMT
Here's a piece of advice I got from a 'Speed Awareness' course I took a few years ago and have used ever since to be almost like: If your car has a speed limiter, use it. if it doesn't then it probably is a manual so never put it in a gear higher than 1/10 of the speed limit (ie 2nd gear for 20mph, third gear for 30 mph, 4th for 40 mph etc) It works and despite my huge cynicism before the course, I was very impressed by the tone and practical nature of the course. Way way better than the alternative of 3 points + fine. How does that effect MPG? On the other point. I got a speeding ticket because my car computer had a flid one night and turned the limiter off. I was fined for doing 82. Grr. I took the car in and they reprogrammed the system which had also developed a series of peculiarities by then including turning my lights on to main beam without warning. But they wouldn't compensate me for the fine as they said I was still responsible for my speed even with a limiter fitted. I told the guys on the speed awareness course and instead of sympathy I got the usual "You should have been done for driving without care and attention as well" Sigh. |
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2024 16:00:34 GMT
Dunno on MPG. IIRC you get max MPG at the max torque revs which means change up as soon as you can.
My wife's car has an overcomplex speed limiter and on more than one occasion has led me to put it into cruise control mode instead leading to me well breaking the speed limit. So far not with adverse outcomes of either kind but many sympathies over that fine for 82mph. Once upon a time you'd have got away with it. Did they offer you a speed course?
So in a vaguely connected point should I dob in the arrogant &%$£ that used a turn left only lane to accelerate past me at a traffic lights cutting me up from the inside and had to be doing way over the 30 mph? Got him on both dash and rear view cameras. I'm thinking nah.
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Post by dappy on Jul 24, 2024 17:18:25 GMT
Can’t say I agree with you on this one Zany.
The speed limit is the limit advertised. It is your responsibility to stay within it. It is not your role to question why the limit is set as it is.
There will invariably be multiple fixed signage signs (say on a motorway taking limit down from 70 to 50) long before the limit is enforced.
On the electronic overhead signage the reduced speed limit is only enforced on the second gantry advertising that speed so you in practise have a good mile to drop your speed to the new limit.
If you get caught for speeding you deserve your punishment. (btw I am no angel in this respect - I have had points (although currently license is clean) and have done three speed awareness courses over the years. I found the first one in particular interesting and useful and made me a better driver).
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Post by Zany on Jul 24, 2024 17:27:02 GMT
Dunno on MPG. IIRC you get max MPG at the max torque revs which means change up as soon as you can. My wife's car has an overcomplex speed limiter and on more than one occasion has led me to put it into cruise control mode instead leading to me well breaking the speed limit. So far not with adverse outcomes of either kind but many sympathies over that fine for 82mph. Once upon a time you'd have got away with it. Did they offer you a speed course? There was a presenter on Radio 4 the other day talking about the requirement of speed limiters on all new cars in the EU. But she couldn't stop herself mentioning that she had got a £100 speeding fine for doing 23 in a 20. If that had been a real person not some distant bureaucrat with a target to reach, she would never have been fined as at 23mph its very clear she was not attempting to speed. Yes I was offered the course I declined as the last one proved they are meaningless and bad for your blood pressure. Many years ago an elderly cabinet maker gave me a brilliant bit of advice. I was an apprentice and was cringing as the foreman verbally laid into a lad for some minor mistake. The elderly man lent in close to me and asked "Do you know the punishment for being an arsehole?" "No" I said He leant in closer while keeping his eyes firmly on the foreman. "The punishment for being an arsehole is being an arsehole." I've never forgotten that, when some bloke cuts in or queue jumps I just think, there's an arsehole who's life is filled with being angry and nasty and being an arsehole. Thank you god. |
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Post by Zany on Jul 24, 2024 17:33:14 GMT
Can’t say I agree with you on this one Zany. The speed limit is the limit advertised. It is your responsibility to stay within it. It is not your role to question why the limit is set as it is. There will invariably be multiple fixed signage signs (say on a motorway taking limit down from 70 to 50) long before the limit is enforced. If you get caught for speeding you deserve your punishment. (btw I am no angel in this respect - I have had points (although currently license is clean) and have done three speed awareness courses over the years. I found the first one in particular interesting and useful and made me a better driver). Thank you for the official line Dappy, I'll let all the faulty humans know. How do you prove the first gantry didn't light up after you passed it? My fine was definitely after the first gantry sign I saw. Me and all the other cars caught in the lightning storm of flashes that went on forever in my rear view mirror as I moved away from the camera. the diligent and respectable authorities must have raised a couple of grand in less than a minute. Who are we to question such good work. |
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Post by dappy on Jul 24, 2024 17:47:10 GMT
As I said Zany I am a faulty human too. I don’t blame the authorities for my failings though.
The gantry’s are set such that they only enforce the new speed limit at the second gantry. Obviously they know how long it takes to get from first gantry to second at former speed limit. So it feels unlikely you were treated unfairly unless the gantry software failed which I am told (but can’t verify) is almost impossible.
I presume if you were fined and pointed that you were caught fairly recently before and did the speed awareness course. How may I ask did you find it? Was that incident your fault or the authorities too?
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Post by Zany on Jul 24, 2024 18:11:55 GMT
As I said Zany I am a faulty human too. I don’t blame the authorities for my failings though. The gantry’s are set such that they only enforce the new speed limit at the second gantry. Obviously they know how long it takes to get from first gantry to second at former speed limit. So it feels unlikely you were treated unfairly unless the gantry software failed which I am told (but can’t verify) is almost impossible. I presume if you were fined and pointed that you were caught fairly recently before and did the speed awareness course. How may I ask did you find it? Was that incident your fault or the authorities too? I blame the authorities for getting things wrong or cheating to get money in . I don't think they are sent from god to do his will. Neither do I have your faith that they always act in good faith. Have there not been enough scandals for you to have doubts. Enough children seized from unmarried mothers, enough councillors caught lining their pockets? You have been lucky to miss all that. I remember when Cambridge council discovered the parking area outside Staples belonged to the council and not the shop. What did they do? Put up signs saying sorry you've always parked here but this is actually council property and designated a 20ft wide path? Nope. They hired a recovery firm to take all the parked cars to a compound and charged them all £200 to get them back. In the end Staples paid an employee to stand outside the shop warning people what the council were doing. Oh yes I trust the authorities not to cheat. |
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Post by AvonCalling on Jul 24, 2024 18:29:05 GMT
If you don't like the signs, have an issue with them or think they are wrong COMPLAIN, my partner would genuinely love to investigate your compliant and if you are lucky she may even call you.
That aside personally I'd string up people driving through a red cross as that was what a coach driver did and killed the occupants of a cat.
That is not to say there are not issues with the system but realistically it can only be answered on a case by case basis so the "complain" comment was genuine but I don't know what the SLA for turn around time is
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Steve
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2024 18:38:12 GMT
Dunno on MPG. IIRC you get max MPG at the max torque revs which means change up as soon as you can. My wife's car has an overcomplex speed limiter and on more than one occasion has led me to put it into cruise control mode instead leading to me well breaking the speed limit. So far not with adverse outcomes of either kind but many sympathies over that fine for 82mph. Once upon a time you'd have got away with it. Did they offer you a speed course? There was a presenter on Radio 4 the other day talking about the requirement of speed limiters on all new cars in the EU. But she couldn't stop herself mentioning that she had got a £100 speeding fine for doing 23 in a 20. If that had been a real person not some distant bureaucrat with a target to reach, she would never have been fined as at 23mph its very clear she was not attempting to speed. Yes I was offered the course I declined as the last one proved they are meaningless and bad for your blood pressure. Many years ago an elderly cabinet maker gave me a brilliant bit of advice. I was an apprentice and was cringing as the foreman verbally laid into a lad for some minor mistake. The elderly man lent in close to me and asked "Do you know the punishment for being an arsehole?" "No" I said He leant in closer while keeping his eyes firmly on the foreman. "The punishment for being an arsehole is being an arsehole." I've never forgotten that, when some bloke cuts in or queue jumps I just think, there's an arsehole who's life is filled with being angry and nasty and being an arsehole. Thank you god. great one  |
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Steve
Hero Protagonist
Posts: 3,633
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Post by Steve on Jul 24, 2024 18:46:29 GMT
Can’t say I agree with you on this one Zany. The speed limit is the limit advertised. It is your responsibility to stay within it. It is not your role to question why the limit is set as it is. There will invariably be multiple fixed signage signs (say on a motorway taking limit down from 70 to 50) long before the limit is enforced. On the electronic overhead signage the reduced speed limit is only enforced on the second gantry advertising that speed so you in practise have a good mile to drop your speed to the new limit. If you get caught for speeding you deserve your punishment. (btw I am no angel in this respect - I have had points (although currently license is clean) and have done three speed awareness courses over the years. I found the first one in particular interesting and useful and made me a better driver). Many years ago I got done for speeding at a time and place where the speed limit was ridiculously inappropriate. I took the view in writing to the court that that didn't matter as I was exceeding the speed other road users had a reasonable right to expect me to be doing. 'What a crawler' do I hear you say. Got quite a light fine as a result but having thought it through the principle has stayed with me. But some speed limits are unreasonably set and unreasonably enforced. I know of one that was set in effect illegally because residents didn't like the cars going near (not by) a school during the day but didn't meet the criteria for a 30mph limit. And it was enforced with a camera doing people at 4am when the road was deserted. Not the way to help build a coherent society. People have successfully challenged some convictions on those variable limits when they've been able to show the limit set was unreasonable at the time. |
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